Awakening Now

Lessons from Heaven With Michael Royer

• Ilona Ciunaite / Michael Royer • Episode 71

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The experience of Spiritual awakening can be very sudden and unexpected. 
Imagine going to sleep one night and waking up in the morning completely transformed. This is what happened to my guest Michael Royer. His experience was so big that it took him 30 years to fully understand what happened. He wrote a book about it. And today we talk about his journey to Heaven. 

You can download and read the first chapter of Michael's book here
https://heavenlylessons.org/

Work with me. 
http://www.IlonaCiunaite.com/sessions 

Info about free monthly meetings on Zoom 
http://ilonaciunaite.com/events/

Music by Valdi Sabev, Visit his channel for more calm and relaxed music 
https://www.youtube.com/c/ValdiSabev/featured

#awakeningnow #ilonaciunaite #howtodoselfinquiry #selfinquiryquestions #liberationunleashed #seeingthroughselfillusion

Websites
http://ilonaciunaite.com
http://liberationunleashed.com

Welcome to the show.
This is episode number 71 How Sudden And Extraordinary Experience Of Spiritual Awakening With Michael Royer

my name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, and author and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community and this is a place you want to be if you are interested in all things awakening. In the last 13 years, I have been guiding, pointing and supporting seekers on their awakening journeys and because of that I have acquired experience on how to end seeking, how to find inner peace and enjoy life. on the show I talk to seekers and teachers about the fundamental shift, what leads to it, what happens after and how to navigate awakening life.  

Imagine going to sleep one night and waking up in the morning completely transformed. This is what happened to my guest Michael Royer. His experience was so big that it took him 30 years to fully understand what happened. He wrote a book about it. And today we talk about his journey to Heaven. 



hello Michael hello it's really great to meet you and thank you so much for answering my call my pleasure thank you for having me and welcome to the podcast and I'm talking today to a very special guest it's actually my personal curiosity more than anything um this is Michael Royer and he had some very unusual experience and we're going to get into that of course um but I don't even know how to introduce Michael to you because it's like two parts of his life before experience and after and before there was a lot of achievement and after there was even more so maybe Michael you could just share a few words about yourself how you want to be introduced in this podcast um thank you Ilona again thank you for having me and giving me the opportunity to speak to your

audience um this experience goes all the way back to 1992 which is now 32 years ago um prior to that uh I had had a career in the Navy as a Naval aviator and thanks to the movie Top Gun that's you know most people know what that is um and and I had come out of the Navy and my wife Christine and I had relocated back to our hometown of Southern California we had both entered the corporate world and we were living a very comfortable life uh we lived in a very nice home in a gated community she was working for a Fortune 100 company and I was working for the nation's fifth largest Tyrant service center as an executive running their franchise Administration and that's what we thought our life was going to be um I think there's a term here they use called the American dream and I think we were living every inch of that and all of a sudden over the course of one evening that all changed my entire life changed uh and in short I was taken uh to what we would most commonly call heaven and I was allowed to exist there for a period of time and taken to three different venues on that Heavenly plane where I was taught very specific lessons and then I was returned back to what I call this Earthly plane and I'll never forget that morning waking up uh after I was returned to my body and um being pulled out of that very abruptly or being put back in my body very abruptly um after I woke up I was still was very connected to the emotions that were heaven and so I got up out of bed that morning and walked over and found my wife and I was actually unable to even speak and I just looked at her and prob probably all the blood had drained out of my face and she just said what is wrong what is wrong and I could not even communicate all I could do is go up and give her this huge hug and I just sobbed uncontrollably uh because I was just still overrun with all the emotions that I had experienced in heaven so um that is kind of where the uh Journey kicked off and in a very short nutshell after that evening um one of the things I discovered in heaven is that much of what I was doing here back on this Earthly plane um really was of no consequence it really was not important and one of the things that I learned from existing as a spiritual being for that period of time is the importance of being of service to others and that's one of the predominant things that I brought back from heaven with me and after that night um it was really not a choice I had to find a way to become of service to others and so uh it took a while and it took a relocation from California to Arizona but after some years several years I was able to find uh uh my way into a counselling position and went back to work on my master's degree in counselling and spent the next 21 years and Beyond uh doing just that being of service to others and was fortunate enough that I really was put in positions uh where I was able to help thousands and that in itself played a very important role in the aftermath of my return so I think that kind of summarizes a little bit of what has brought us together today right yes because one morning I wake up and I like to go outside in the morning with my cats and drink coffee and read a book and I ran out of pages the book was finished and here was your email saying hello maybe you're interested in this book okay I'll read it yeah I'm having this coffee cats are running around and the book came in the first chapter and when I read the first chapter I knew I wanted to know more because it was just so intriguing and the most intriguing thing for me was that it was just so sudden you didn't take anything you didn't then die you know let people have near-death experiences nothing happened to you you went to sleep and was taken away and out of the body into some spiritual realm and you brought back so much information like you mentioned that it wasn't a dream because you know what the dream is like and I had many dreams and that didn't look like a dream right so for me that was very interesting because we get information in a way that we can absorb it we can we need it and it doesn't matter what's happening in your outside life let's say this in your Earthly life the information that needs to come in comes in that's right and you know with the few people that I did share it with prior to the book becoming available they would ask me well if it wasn't a dream because we know that's what it was not certainly was not what was it and I wasn't sure what to call it because I'd never had such an experience before and um but what I have come to call it was an out-of-body experience and the funny thing is Ilona that over those 30 some years that it took me to write the book and well maybe talk about why it took me 30 years to write the book um I really denied myself reading or watching podcasts or videos or reading books on near-death experiences or things of that nature because I didn't want to accidentally commingle my experience with anothers um so it's only recently with the publishing of the book that I've now started watching podcasts and people are talking about their out-of-body experiences and it's like I don't feel so alone now that it's very clear that that's what it was and I think um because the question I often get is why why do you think this happened to you and that's another question that I don't have a good answer for um but I think that it was purposeful because many NDEs near-death experiences can be accidental and I have come to believe and I say this with all humility I don't think my event was accidental I think that it was um planned and I think there was purpose behind it and the purpose I believe was the messages that I was given that I was allowed to bring back with me and now through very kind people like yourself able to share with an audience yeah well thank you so much for focusing on you and keeping that pure yes because people talk and that can get distorted not on purpose but keeping it to yourself for so long like being pregnant with knowledge and then just giving birth to that book which took you 30 is as you said yeah that's a very very good analogy um it was almost like a a 30-year pregnancy and that but you know the interesting thing um is and some of your listeners or viewers may want to know well why did it take 30 years and we talked just a moment ago about when I came back and I had all of this knowledge literally a thousand pieces of heavenly information I had been given the knowledge but I had not been given the understanding and when I came back I knew that I had been given something extremely special um and I knew that I needed to guard it and and treat it appropriately but I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with it it or how I was to begin understanding it and that's where this what I refer to as a Earthbound Journey started and so I was sent out on this Trek that took me through much of the greater Western United States and at each one of those places that I was taken to through circumstances um I would learn and uh it took me the better part of 30 years to gain the knowledge and experience and wisdom necessary to finally connect all of those thousands of pieces of heavenly information that I was given into an understandable final picture and that's when I finally felt like I had gained the necessary understanding to provide it to the public and say now I have confidence that I've got this right I understand it and now I can deliver the message that I was given to deliver so talking about the

message um well I invite people to read the book because everything is so well and described in such a high

detail my cat's going crazy well thank you I I did put put uh a lot of work into it and some of the early feedback that I've had from people that have read it is just that that you make it so understandable and that's really what I wanted to try to do because heaven after being there um I found out it can be as complicated or as simple as we want to make it um because it operates from very simple principles one being um Spiritual Beings operate from a principle of doing what's right because when we leave this body of ours or vessel whatever we want to call this um we also leave behind all the negativity you know all the jealousy the hatred the greed the bigotry all that stays behind and that's part of what allows us as a being of spirit once we transition to the Heavenly plane to be so pure are those things are left behind and we are just pure and we are love and that's how we exist um and so after I came back that was also part of my journey is how can I align myself with existing on this Earthly plane as closely as I can to a spiritual being on the Heavenly plane and that's you know I think I describe it in the book as it's so different existing on the Heavenly plane that sometimes it's like trying to describe color to a colorblind person you just don't have the proper reference points to do that so I had to try to use any analogy that I could to try to bring in something that people can say okay from my current Earthly perspective I can understand that and I think I understand what he's trying to describe and hopefully it makes sense so from the Heavenly perspective what are we exactly what are we how would you say what are we well you know one of the things that I um talk about early on in the book is I uh caution the reader that in order to understand this book you're going to need to set aside your Earthly perspective because if you try to use your Earthly perspective um to try to understand things from a Heavenly perspective it's not going to work you will not understand it so for the purpose of understanding you're going to have to suspend your Earthly perspective set it aside and at least try to incorporate this New Perspective so that you can understand it because again it is so different uhuh so from the Earthly perspective it's beyond description it's beyond words in in many ways and one of the things and if you've read the book you will recall this um I make a relatively bold statement in there because one of the things I describe is that I don't care what your perception of Heaven is what you choose to believe um the actual truth of Heaven is going to differ from whatever it is you believe I'm not trying to change anybody's belief I'm just saying it's going to be different and I give different examples and one of the statements that I make early on in the book is that as we currently exist in our Earthly form we are not prepared to transition directly to Heaven we're just not ready and I said you know that statement may offend some but it's the truth and what we do is after we die and we leave this physical body the first place we will all go to is a place that I describe as the Hall of transition and in that Hall some very very specific things happen um but the purpose behind the hall is that we transition and there are other Spiritual Beings there and their job is to help us transition from the being of Flesh and spirit that we were to the being of spirit that we will become and once we complete what happens in the Hall of Transition then we're ready to go to our next destination but until we pass through the hall we're not yet ready because we just don't have I call them spiritual tools we just don't have those new tools or spiritual senses on board that we utilize in the Heavenly plane or perhaps our other next destination um that are essential for our operation there and um one of the things I would like to put out to your listeners is if anybody has had an experience with the hall
of transition I would love to hear about it because that's one thing I have not heard people I don't think talk about or describe and it's a very very specific place um but I haven't heard people describe it before so I'd be interested if anyone else has passed through the Hall of transition yet been able to come back and be able to describe it oh yeah let's hear it right I'm very interested and curious about this shift that you had it was literally Awakening you woke up in the morning a different a different being with a different understanding it's something shifted so on the show we talk about the shift like from seeing the world and yourself in one way shifting and starting to see everything is the same but everything looks different right fundamental Shift so yes the shift happens but then there's a period of integration a period of uh bringing that knowledge the new knowledge knowing into everyday experience and I'm curious what was the most difficult for you after that shift um yes there initially there was some great difficulty because um you know and coming on to your show you kind of alerted me that I'm going to ask you about what you think about your Awakening process and I had a little time to think about it and it was interesting Ilona before I was going to appear on your show I had never really thought about it in those terms as far as an Awakening or an Enlightenment or you know whatever people whatever term they choose to use and um so I gave it a little bit of thought and it was very interesting as I thought about it it really helped bring me back to what I had written and my process and almost look at it in a little different way um and I might wrap up with that but to start with um I think my Awakening was uh a process and um actually I believe my process started 4 years before I actually took this journey to Heaven going back to 1988 and as we mentioned I was in the Navy I was a Naval aviator and I was going on one of my last flights with the Navy I was in Airplane I was flying by myself and uh without going into too much detail I got myself into a very bad situation in the airplane um and it was a very extreme situation and it was through stupidity uh and I actually it got so bad so quickly that I didn't think I was going to die I knew I was going to die oh Wow and in that moment um up until that time I had not been one to pray very much but I thought I have nothing to lose and I said a very quick prayer I just simply said God don't let me die and Ilona the moment I said that prayer not two seconds after not the moment I said that prayer my situation changed and I knew I was going to be okay and I flew out of the situation and when it was done I was just beside myself and I collected myself and when I thought back on it after I landed and was okay I said you know I think I have a decision to make here I can I can agree to think that that was nothing more than coincidence it was just luck or I can accept that in my greatest moment of need I reached out to God and he answered my prayer and he saved my life and that was the decision that I chose to make and since that moment my life has been different and I think that may have set the foundation for later going to heaven maybe so later on when I went to heaven and I came back um the immediate time after that uh was very difficult because I think the initial word I use after I returned was con confused I was very confused and I know people might say well Mike wait a minute you went to heaven you describe it as being perfect so how come when you came back you were confused and I alluded to it earlier by saying that I had been given all this knowledge but I had not been given understanding so I I didn't know what I was supposed to do with this information I didn't know what it all meant and I had been instilled with this tremendous need to be of service and it literally was it was like a fire had been ignited inside of me and I didn't know how to put it out but if I didn't do something uh it was going to consume me so after grappling with this for several weeks I told my wife I said I don't know how to tell you this but we have to sell our job or or quit you know sell our house quit our jobs and move and she said what are you talking about I said I I I have got to solve this I've got to figure this out and I'm not supposed to do it here in California so those were the only two things I was left with Ilona was I I had to leave our current environment and I had to go to Arizona what was there waiting I did not know um and it took some years but that's why I eventually got into the helping professions and it was through that process and that Journey that it allowed me to finally start gaining understanding so I was able to take this knowledge and start now properly inter uh interpreting it putting the puzzle together and gaining understanding and then that process just grew and accelerated and then eight years later after I thought that I had enough understanding well maybe I'll start putting it on paper maybe I'll even start writing a book then that all gets upended and I'm once again eight years later taking on a second Journey just like the first and if I was confused before my first when I came back I was doubly confused because nothing from the second Journey fit within the context of my first journey so now I was in real

trouble yeah oh it sounds like you know there was a download of information but it had to be installed in the right places yes you know like that piece had to be there that piece had to be there and that had to be there and until everything is in the right place it's just like a bundle of information it was almost Ilona like given a book in a foreign language that you only understand a few of the words but you know that contained within that book is such tremendous knowledge and you know you have to figure it out but there's nobody around that can understand that language or interpret it for you so you just have to put in the work to learn the language and and that became my journey of Awakening was getting out on the Earthbound Journey putting in the work being of service to others and that allowed me to finally learn the new language and now gain the understanding of the knowledge that I had been given and here we are and so here we are and here we are so let's talk about the message the main the main message what are you what do you really want people to know from where you are now what is the message right and that was even a little bit of a surprise to me because um initially when I first started thinking about writing a book and that was eight years after my return I still didn't have full understanding but I thought I had enough understanding to at least start writing about my experience then the second Journey came along and took me to a completely different location and so it took me a number of years to finally interpret that and interestingly enough Ilona my journey took me to working with people contemplating suicide and um I worked in that population for about eight years um I probably did somewhere around 3,500 face-to-face encounters with people contemplating or who had attempted suicide and even though that was very intense work that taught me so much about interpreting my second journey and so I thought okay this book will now be about my first journey to heaven and then were giving a little bit away but my second Journey was actually to the gates of hell not into hell itself thankfully but to the gates of hell where I interacted with a soul that was recently had come out of that location so I thought okay now I've got more to write about and I have this context now of book ends I have heaven and I have the gates of hell so I can talk about those two things and once I find finally was able to assemble all the puzzle pieces I found out that although as important and as incredible as that information was that was not to take uh front stage what the message was intended to be is that information stands as a backdrop the message is that those lessons learned at those two places are designed to be understood and learned by us in the here and now because the path many of us are currently on is not in alignment with the path that we are supposed to be on our natural path that we're supposed to develop and I think that path comes as a result of being awakened I think part of the Awakening I don't know if it's chicken or egg get on the path that helps us be become awakened or we become awakened and we get on the right path uh the journey we're supposed to be on but so a whole third section of the book now I found out after looking at the final picture needed to be written and it was to help us here in our Earthly State understand that we are currently supposed to be living under those universal laws or lessons that Spiritual Beings abide by because very simply put as we currently exist we are both flesh and spirit that spirit is obviously currently within it so it is still learning it is still growing and we need to live in the here and now as closely in alignment as we can with the Spiritual Beings that are on the Heavenly plane so that's I think more than anything what this book is it's a opportunity to learn how Spiritual Beings exist what guidance they follow and then offer the reader an opportunity to say this is the guidance we are supposed to be following now and offer them again a greater understanding of that so that they can perhaps incorporate that into their life and hopefully bring them into a place of peace and Harmony and balance um which is where we're supposed to

be Hm what I got from your book as a confirmation it was this word service or like being of service and I recognize that for many years I've been doing just that just offering my service and just continue to keep doing this the best that I can absolutely absolutely and you know the one interesting thing um as as I knew we were going to discuss the topic Awakening um and going through the process of having your heart opened and having your mind opened and having your eyes opened it's not just about arriving at a place of Awakening or Enlightenment it's about putting that Awakening into action I almost look at it as a call to duty your call to duty was creating this informative podcast to offer people um information and perspective on how people reach their point of Awakening and maybe some of those will resonate with people maybe it won't because I believe everybody's path is a bit different but um it's I believe a call to action and you have taken your action my action was in the form of becoming a counselor and working with people working with young people at risk helping them try to um leave behind some of their emotional uh encumberments and live a better life uh working with people contemplating with suicide trying to help help uh instill hope so that they could find a way to move on with their life and live a life filled with hope and joy and so that's kind of what I believe my call to duty was and I think that it all culminated um in the writing of this book because although as I mentioned I have had the good fortune and have truly been blessed to be able to help thousands through the years uh I'm hoping this book will provide me with the opportunity to help a great many more just by sharing the experience and perhaps having an experience that they themselves have had connect with something in the book and validate for them that that connects with me I can understand that and um hopefully lead them on to something productive and something

positive wonderful and when you talked about people that contemplate suicide they are given

up on life there is no light at all the only thing is to die to escape the suffering to end the suffering and here they meet you and you actually know what it's like to be at the gates of hell so you say all right then you're going to go past pass me you really want to go there or you wanna well I'll tell you um I I was very fortunate uh because here was an interesting uh element of returning from Heaven um I mentioned that when we're in heaven and after we come through the Hall of transition we're given special tools spiritual tools that we use on the Heavenly plane we use them to communicate they allow us to emotionally connect with other Spiritual Beings and to learn and process information much differently than we do in the here and now so when I came back one of the things I knew that I that had been instilled in me was as I mentioned the um need to be of service to others but what I didn't understand at the time is that I had been left with another uh spiritual tool that Spiritual Beings had which was a very uh high level of insight or intuition and I did not know that initially and my first um inclination that I had been given or been allowed to retain that was shortly after I returned for example we would go to a uh party a work party uh with my wife and a lot of her co-workers were there and I had not met any of them but standing aside with her I could look at one and go um is that lady over there yeah does she display this type of personality do she do this or her Tendencies to do this and she goes yes that's exactly what she does and how she does it
how do you know that and it was just as if I could look at a person and I could understand their nature and their Tendencies um and it was years later working with people contemplating suicide that I gained the confidence to use this tool in working with them because as a crisis counsellor you come and meet that person and they're going to talk with you maybe about the most vulnerable moment in their life where they're contemplating taking their life and you have to walk in and say hi my name is Mike I'm here to help you tell me what you're experiencing right now quite often they don't want to talk to you they don't know you they don't trust you they don't know what your motives are so I learned to trust this intuition I had and and this is what I would do I would look at them and say okay I understand that you don't want to talk with me and that's okay but let me talk to you for a moment and here's what we'll do I'm going to tell you three things about yourself and all I'm asking is that you tell me if I'm wrong and I would go okay um I think that you are struggling with this item right here I think that this is what brought you to the point of feeling suicidal and I also believe that you're struggling with this because of that and they would look at me and go how do you know that who have you been talking to and I would say no one well how do you know that well because I was acting in the role of a professional counselor I couldn't really share with them how that I knew that but without fail it broke the ice and then they would start talking with me and I would say that I'm only here to help you and again without exception that would break the ice and I was able to give those people help and assistance and it was a wonderful gift to have and I always tried to use it only when I needed to and only with sincerity but I will share with you Ilona that over those uh 3,500 interactions I had over those eight years I only lost one client to suicide and I still carry that person with me but I do feel that I was able um to provide help to those in need and I got my confirmation by so many times a quick story uh I lived in a small community and on pretty frequent occasion I would run into these people and they would walk up to me as I was shopping and say do you remember me and I tend to remember through context and uh I would say well help me remember well you encountered me when I was struggling with this and you you helped me and I had you know a father that was alcoholic whatever it was and I would say oh yes and then I would lend to the conversation showing them that I remembered and then they would say to me I always promised myself if I ever saw you again I would go out of my way to say thank you because you saved my life that day and talk about a humbling experience and um that happened more than once and even today reflecting back on that it it gives me goosebumps up but that was the type of service that I was allowed to do um that was my call to action that was part of it but it also helped me unravel a lot of the mysteries of what I was given on my first and second

journey I love what you said that the heart opens the Mind opens the eyes open I never heard that before I think it's beautiful the eyes open so you got kind of x-ray vision is it something on all the time or is it on by Will well um back then uh it was something that through use you know it's almost like a bodybuilder who lifts weights all the time you know and they get big and strong and they develop those muscles well I just was developing different skills and I used them quite often but through time and distance like the person who stops lifting weights the muscles get  
a little bit smaller so um it's not as prevalent as it used to be I still have very uh can still have very strong um uh impressions of people good or bad um and that can sometimes be difficult uh because if I have a intuition about a person that their energy is very bad um it's difficult to be around them uh and I have to politely try to distance myself on the other hand it's nice to see people that put out a very positive good energy and I find myself um those are the people that I gravitate toward uh and what I've come to referred to them as Ilona in these later years I call them real people because they don't put on a facade they don't wear a mask they don't try to convince somebody of what they're not they're just genuine they're comfortable with themselves who they are and they're comfortable having people know them as who they are and um those are the people I love to be around these days and and those are the people I think truthfully that I try to seek out um I try to be myself that type of person um and I love being around people sometimes honestly they can be hard to find because I think so many of us struggle with trying to find out who we are um but discovering those people that have made that Discovery um they are nice to be around I agree sweet

I ask everyone what is your advice for somebody who's seeking seeking Awakening seeking Enlightenment seeking for something truth to be told everyone is seeking for peace for being comfortable in their own skin and their own environment in their own life peace with what is and that seeking can be taking years not just months years and years what would be your advice for these people well um if you'll indulge me I'll I'll draw on my book a little bit because truthfully that is an area that I spent a lot of time thinking about because when it comes down to it you know you ask earlier what what is the message of the book and the message again I think is to allow people in opportunity to incorporate uh the lessons that Spiritual Beings live by but I think that we have a lot of challenges today in doing that and I outline those in the book and some of the things that I talk about is I talk about something I call the triangle of greed and I talk about and and I make an apology in the book because I know this may offend some people and my intent is not to offend but to try to help people be a bit more observant and being under the influence of greed um can happen to so many of us and it it's not just about money but it can be about power it can be about seeking favor or acceptance and we can fall prey to greed greed is a very very powerful adversary and we have to find ways to circumnavigate greed and get away from it and the other thing I put on the triangle that is such a powerful foe is fear one of the things that I talk about is fear being the great paralyzer fear keeps us stuck it keeps us from taking chances or taking risks and sometimes to set out on these journeys of Awakening we have to take risks we have to leave behind what feels safe and secure and take a risk or sometimes we call it a leap of faith and fear is such a powerful tool and it has such negative subsidiaries like anger insecurities jealousy and so we have to find ways to identify fear and and how to combat it and then I talk about lust and when we hear the term lust we might think of you know sex um but that's not how I describe it you know social media is such a powerful tool these days and it can be used for good or bad and we see so many young people under the influence of these social influencers and they are so swayed to try to become like someone else and we lust after being somebody else or their fame or their money and I try to caution them and say you can't do that because if you do that you're ignoring the wonderful person that you are intended to be there's only one you that other person you're trying to emulate already

exists because somebody else is depending on you and it's up to you to help them discover who they need to be and if you never become your true self you never have that opportunity to help someone else on their Journey so that's what I think gets in their way and I call that living on the triangle and I ask people to take a self-inventory and truthfully examine what components of the triangle are influencing their life right now and how they can set a course to move off of the triangle and onto the circle and the circle that I created emulate Spiritual Beings and how they exist on the Heavenly plane and at the top of the circle is love because if I was forced to describe God in one word it would be love complete and unconditional and unending love and if we can guide our lives by love we're going to be in a much better place if we're able to lead with love then that allows us to be kind because kindness springs from Love and if we can be kind to both ourselves and others then that puts not only us in a better place but it puts those people that we encounter in a better place because instead of being on the triangle and acting out of anger we act out of kindness towards others and encourage them to be kind kind to others and if we can be kind then it brings us to a place where we can forgive because working as a counselor I learned that so many people's struggle with would have been done to them and they cannot or have not found their way to a place of forgiveness where they can forgive themselves or forgive others and in order to move through that Circle you have to be able to forgive and if you can forgive yourself for acts that you've done towards others and you can forgive others that have done terrible things to you then you can start bringing yourself into balance and Harmony because you can't live a life of Peace if you are out of balance and if you can accomplish those three things then you can move to the last place on the circle which is a place of peace and I think you said earlier we're all striving to find a place of peace and I believe you have to move through those three things and the reason I say that with conviction those are the things that he um Spiritual Beings on the Heavenly plane incorporate that's how they operate that's how they treat each other that's their operating manual and all I do is offer people in the Here and Now an opportunity to evaluate that and decide if their life is better lived on the triangle or is it better lived on the circle but as you said earlier that transition can take time and patience and it doesn't necessarily happen

easily yeah well thank you so much for bringing these two triangle and the circle into the conversation because this is one thing I really loved in your book

thank you oh the book was great but this particular thing stood out there is so much truth in there and it resonates well you know speaking of resonating um and I wanted to ask you and I know you've been asking the questions and I hope you don't find it improper if I ask you a question but although the book has just been published um it has been such a reward to me that people that have already read it have come back and have shared with me their validation saying to me this is what resonated with me after I read your book and this is what validated your book for me and I go into some description in my book that I was worried about that um but I was told that validating the book was beyond me that wasn't my job myob job in all of this was to tell the truth without an ounce of embellishment or an inch of deviation tell the whole and complete truth and what I wanted to ask you after reading the book was there something in that book that resonated with you personally if I may ask and gave you validation

well it was really clear that everyone is having their experience exactly the way they need to have it and it comes then need to look for it it comes it's given that's one thing like we all are on our own journey and we don't need to look up for what other people are doing or what experiences other people are having just the only thing is to focus here on ourselves on our perception of life an our experience in being ourselves and then what happened in that other realm or that other dimension I don't even know how to call it right what happened there it's something to look forward to yes and I'm lucky because I had the experience of um seeing what is beyond death and for me death is no longer something to be afraid of but it was like Yay there's so much more there's so much ah curiosity there and anticipation I'm not saying I want to leave this place tomorrow or today to go there but yeah why not there is no fear of that so that was beautiful and the strongest thing is that service

thing if we are meant to come here and be of service to the whole why not to do it now well said well said cause if not now when you know we don't need to wait yes that's right can be of service now thank you thank you for sharing that with me because um this has been a 30-year not always a Labor of Love sometimes a labor of quite a bit of struggle um getting to this point uh but I I always knew that I was being guided um I never lost that faith and one other thing if I could Ilona and I think this is very important when we're talking about Awakening and again I don't mean this to sound as a criticism but I think people can be um a little fickle they can say that they incorporate a belief and then a month or two later you know it's like going to the gym after New Year's resolution I go for three months and then I stop uh when you have a true Awakening I really feel that it connects with your very soul and if you do experience a true Awakening I don't think you can ever recant on it or give it back it's there it's yours to keep and so although there were times during the course of my 30-year Journey that I felt frustration and felt struggles and um confusion I knew that I could never give up because I felt that what I was what I had been given was true and that I had no choice but to see it through um it's yours for the keeping I guess I would say

well that hour went so

quick well you've been a wonderful host thank you and I would like you to share if you have any final words or something that we didn't touch and you wanted to say whatever is coming up well uh again I would just encourage people to focus on living a life again Guided by love love is the most powerful tool that we have on this Earthly plane and I think sometimes we underestimate the power of love I believe we really do and this world can be hard it can be sometimes uncaring and it can be difficult for us to understand that we are loved and we can love others but love is always there and like a compass love should be that North Star that guides us and as I mentioned earlier uh through love comes kindness through kindness becomes the ability to forgive and I just wish that people could um incorporate that into their life because I truly believe it will make all the difference and on that day when we do cross over they will already have started Living their life in accordance with how Spiritual Beings do and like you said why wait why wait but I would love Ilona if any of your listeners uh would would would like to contact me with their own stories or their own experiences or if they read the book uh and want to share their own validations I would love to hear from them and if I just might say my website is Heavenly lessons.org Heavenly lessons. org and I always love to hear from people wonderful thank you so much and I don't think we mention the name of your book it's it's lessons from heaven and Beyond it's currently available on Amazon in both as a eBook for your Kindle or phone and uh just as of uh today but it will be out by the time this airs I believe the paperback version is now available also so that's lessons from heaven and Beyond and again my website is heavenly 
 lessons. org yes thank you so much Michael such a pleasure thank you it has been my true pleasure thank you so much and thank you everyone for watching and listening and I hope you got something here something of curiosity and interest and maybe a lesson or two and I encourage people to read the book it's pretty awesome and I'll see you next time bye for now