Here Is The TRUTH: You Are Not Who You THINK You Are

What if everything you thought about yourself was wrong? This video will open your eyes. You are not who you think you are. How to see this? Let's explore the question of a separate self together. 
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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 77, You Are Not Who You Think You Are: Seeing Through The Fiction of Self

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you’re interested in all things awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve had the privilege of guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life. Whether you’re a seeker, a teacher, or simply curious, there’s something here for you.


What if everything you thought about yourself was wrong? This recording of a group session will open your eyes. You are not who you think you are. How to see this? Let's explore the question of a separate self together. 
If you have a question and want me to answer it in the next zoom meeting, please come to the meeting or write to me through the fan mail.

and welcome everyone to the meeting and this meeting is specifically for the question of no self or seeing through the illusion of a separate self and what is that and how to see it why to see it what's going

on well this illusion of a self or separate self in other words can be called a person personhood personality or character all the story is about me it's always about me the character is me so the story is told in a third perspective about a character and like any good story needs a character it
cannot be without it so as the character is being created and identified with that me becomes ''real'' and yes it's a real character in a real story but the whole story is fictional so what is this personhood or identity there are so many words pointing to the same it's just like a veil through which we perceive life like everything is seen through the eyes of that person of

me and because the person is limited it has its likes dislikes it has ideas hopes fears and everything

there is so much resistance to anything other than me so when the story arises it can be a nice story doesn't matter it's the story but when the story arises and that character is in play that it seems like that character decides what's happening in the story so what does that resistance what's the role of the resistance in that personal

story that story needs to be protected because you know it's my precious my story and I believe this I don't believe that this is how it is I know that I don't know that all this is a belief system that needs to be protected because otherwise I don't know what I am and now I have an identity I know what I am these are my likes my dislikes and my ideas about who I am what is the world so this this structure the structure of Personality consists of thoughts images memories emotions

behavior and everything seems like there's this me a character that is running the show

and there is no problem with that because everyone is in it everyone is playing that but seeing through the illusion of a separate self is recognition that I'm not a character I'm not that story and that story is just something that is arising along everything else along in life just a wave so kind of disidentifying from that story we can start looking at what we really are what's going on

here I remember days when the story would come in and it would like to retell itself like oh that happened yes but that happened and that happened and then this happened and I would start feeling something and then juicy and next day oh the story continues and it's a little bit

different little a little bit added extra or something is lost doesn't matter but that story continues and it likes to retell itself so juicy.

but then I I walk around the world around reality with a story running in my head and I don't even see what's going on really

so seeing through that story that it's not me or mine it allows it to be there but it's not so important anymore it's not something that I need to you know hold so precious and oh God forbid something happens to me in the story that I don't like or others going to see me like that so the resistance is there to protect the story the personality

but we are not that um without clinging to this story or identifying to this story I can't show up in this moment just as I am without thinking how I should appear what you should think of

me it's just being

here so part of this seeing through the illusion of a separate self is recognizing what is fictional and what is actual what is fictional and what is actual and the actuality is just simply

this that is showing up in this moment as it

is it doesn't require thinking doesn't require judging what this is it can just be there's no clinging to

it and the fiction is everything else the past the future and all the

judgments so when we are looking for Freedom or for escape of being a person we are looking to stop that story to from being so important from being the only thing that is value and that is running the

show because without that story everything still here everything is still the

same and you can notice the story running in the head let's say I'm talking you're hearing whatever I'm saying and it can be just words passing through you passing through and out and new words are coming in doesn't matter or there can be a voice saying ah something blah blah blah about it resisting it accepting it doesn't matter if there is a voice talking something while hearing these words that's a story running that's that's seeing perceiving whatever is going on through the character

and it's so easy to notice that story as soon as we just shut up for five minutes you know if there is no action no doing no talking

nothing the attention is resting something is going to come up

then who's talking there or what is going on there with that voice in the head with that narrator is that the person

talking or it's talking about the person just some thoughts coming up

thoughts are not a problem absolutely not a problem it's also part of what is showing up it becomes a problem

when it talks in a way that I am separate I'm suffering I need to get back to the whole I need to connect I don't know who I am that becomes

problematic then it's a lot of energy going into resolving this question

but without thoughts just being here there is no separateness without the story there is no character there is no person just

being and the narrative may go like oh there is Oneness I haven't experienced that I want to know it by experience this Unity oh how would it feel to be one with everything I am one with everything that's just thoughts about concept of

Oneness like making this into some kind of goal to achieve some kind of project but without thoughts about it it's just this it's not divided there is no line dividing anything it's the thoughts that create that illusion of a separateness and then the thoughts are trying to resolve that question of what is this I why do I feel separate how to be one so without creating that story of separateness there's just this that is

here and sure thing in human life we need these individual perspectives as we go along and go around life it's part of it the question is is that something that I identify with as me that's this is what I am or just seem like a functional thing just this sense of self as a functional thing

I think my speech is over now

I don't know what's going on it's just words come in and come out by themselves I had no plan to

speak but it seemed that something needed to be said so it's got said that's how it looks from from here what needs to be said is going to be said and that's

it and at this point I I invite you if you have this question of self no self what's going on here with that still running and it wants to be resolved let's have a conversation and see what what happens

I've got a question okay great great to see you again great to be here um what about uh feelings or emotions like um shame guilt and

embarrassment um

good question yes yes what's about them well there are functional things and dysfunctional like guilt and shame and what was the other one embarrassment embarrassment jealousy any of those yeah any of those can be functional and dysfunctional functional meaning you did something wrong you know that you did something wrong um somebody caght you it feels shameful I feel guilty and embarrassed yeah why not that's great that's kind of how we learn what not to do how not to behave as a human but if that is something that is part of Personality that just feeling shame constantly just for being for existing or feeling guilty that you are here feeling embarrassed about your yeah face or body or mind or emotions that's dysfunctional that's something that is built into a personality and being identified with that is is really really painful so if that is something that is running constantly every day then it's very Worth to look at it and resolve it because that is not meant to be there it's not who you are it's not how you are which is something learned acquired conditioned believed owned projected and it's self-confirming you know if that belief is running in the system the world will confirm it for you multiple times so that the program that is running dysfunctionally is self-confirming and because it's part of Personality it's being protected by resistance and um the way to resolve it is to see the whole pattern how it works like mechanics of

it what's going on

here thank you um well what's coming up here is kind of a joy because that makes complete sense um functional versus dysfunctional or or what you said is uh am I let's say identified with the shame why can't shame just be another arising and then uh be used like you said to learn something from but it's not who I

am that's cool thank you you're welcome

hello hello Hello nice to meet you nice to meet you too I only met you today really on internet somehow and uh I am Polish and um I used to go to Lithuania quite a bit you know and some somehow your surname it sounded lithuanian and so I just felt a lot of warmth I enjoyed lithuanian people a lot and um to think speaking of Shame um I periodically experience this shame

of not being awakened of thinking I'm not awake you know and it's a particular kind of Shame um yeah especially having had some fortaste of Awakening you know long time ago quite

profound and kind of unpacking it ever since 35 years ago um so I don't have a question around it just I kind of wanted to bring it in because it it was as if it's a a secret a secretive thing

yeah oh thank you so much for sharing your secret now everyone knows it it's no longer

secret yeah but you know what does it say like you should be awaken by now or what does that narrative about the Awakening is saying really

so clearly it's something to do with how I am being perceived by other people otherwise because it doesn't feel um I don't know maybe I am also how I am perceiving myself really you know around so that yes there is a should uh but it's not just a should there is some pain around that you know it's sadness and it's painful to live from uh the artificiality of this Persona it kind of you know turns something within me that doesn't feel very palatable yeah you know there isn't even so much a a longing for awakening it's it's it's simpler and maybe it's not simpler but it seems uh simpler because I can more relate to that which is uh Simplicity and innocence living a simple and innocent expression and this touches me this touches my heart um can we invite that what you call shame or let's call it energy let's call it energy let's invite it here can run some thoughts in your mind bring it up bring it in like it's allowed it can be it can be here it's allowed there's nothing wrong with that emotion or that sensation or that

energy just letting it be yeah I mean the sensation is as if there is a a kind of a pressure that turns around comes from here and turns around and press against my chest and I also not noticed casting my eyes down uh as if

um it's not okay to look up in that also let's look down don't do anything other than what it wants it just wants to be seen that's the truth of it you wants to be seen allowed honored

welcomed and you know I don't need to go there probably but it's there is an association of being a young child yeah see when you bring attention to it it shows you maybe where it started or maybe where is the most painful yeah so let's go there let's go with that little child just see that little child welcome her she's beautiful innocent

say hello to her hello little one I love you so much you're

beautiful yeah she she seems to feel alone mhm uh and there is an incomprehension of

why it seems like she has been shamed that it came from outside and there is an incomprehension of why mhm no

content oh can you look at her and say whoever said something to you wasn't about you it's about them just express what they believed what they saw whoever that was it wasn't about you

you just took it you took it to be about you you didn't know any

better but it's not you it's not yours it's not who you are

and ask did you do something naughty that you had to feel shame did you do something there is this emphatic movement on her of her head no well then it's definitely not

yours it's not what I said is a functional shame is just something taken on as a part of personality believing in that that's not yours it's kind of there is this movement this emphatic movement of no uh it feels innocent actually yes her I know I see I know that you're innocent I know

that and there is still this movement um wanting to apologize okay yeah for I want to say for being innocent so innocent isn't it say it again it's so innocent

yeah say I forgive you everyone forgives you for being inocent and it's actually beautiful so valuable

you don't need to apologize for

that you don't need to apologize for who you are or the way you

are say I would really be happy if you just could be yourself show yourself open up as you

are so it updated itself to more um now and this thing about the shame of not being awake whatever it means you know because I'm clever I will say of not thinking that I'm awake but it's just being clever really being awake and that's like um sorry I don't know what to say um still kind raise my eyes and what would being awake look

like it wouldn't look like it would feel like differently this is an imagination yeah it would feel like differently and what would it feel

like uh there would be Purity uh innocence um Simplicity um

there wouldn't be um kind of uh distorting of of what comes through and as it comes through it wouldn't get distorted it would be direct in this way yeah oh nice

and ask that energy are you ready for that no no I don't know if I'm ready I it's precious

yeah precious yeah let's invite that preciousness here you're welcome you're so

welcome it's there is love of it

yes yeah well say to it you are welcome to open up and just be

you you're free tell it you are free

ask if is there anything in a way of your freedom  just

checking say it again is there anything in the way of your freedom ask it that

I cannot find anything in the way there was a thought that there there is a bunch of thoughts but actually they are not experienced as thoughts but there's a little bit of tension in my right part of my head that's it's um not in the way that's not in the way no

just letting it all settle in the right place right size natural state natural

function it's coming home

yeah cuz that energy wanted to move freely express freely but it was kind of trapped into the

personality yes I had to kind of overtake the personality because I usually in these contexts just never speak in these kinds of gatherings um just the shame has been kind of big so um somehow today I I spoke it was ready

I am I guess you guess

because whatever the word awake means are you awake right now?

I cannot deny it

and there is a thought that and now it it it presses through that it would look different so it's I wasn't honest when I said that it's not about how it would look um but oh but the reality looks like as it looks right now it's nothing else to it

like being present to what is here is it's literally just being present to what is here that word awake sometimes can be a little bit trippy because what we are we are not ever asleep you know it's not like something what we are wakes up in some magical mysterious way it's more like recognition that what you are it was never

asleep so what I noticed is that there is a tension in the body and the idea is that there there would be a the relaxation of the tension okay partly in my head as well that so perhaps that tension is ready to to be seen let's look at that okay yeah so you are here as this presence as this openness you are here that tension comes and goes it's something that is moving through and in and out

it's not who you are it's not what you are it's just some movement that you are noticing

so tell that tension tell that energy I see you I see you I aknowledge you're

here yeah it kind of intensified and and I don't have a movement to go into mental content of it I mean I could but it's like I don't feel it's necessary enough that the tension is here yeah welcome welcome you can be as you are there is enough space for you

here can show yourself fully come on out come on so what's happen what's happening now is what's been happening for the last few weeks I guess when I meditate and I don't kind of I formally meditate but often it's just like I wake up or when I go to bed I'm just lying and there is this um what started happening is like

um I noticed the tension throughout all of the body and in that moment it's not the first time it has been before as well but when I notice that tension there is like taking my hands off the body like my mind stops interfering and it's I just experienced this moment here that I can look now at people and I can be tense and

um yes I am so this is like a came back to me and so there is this moment where the mind takes its hand hands off from the experience and the experiences of tension but there is no movement to change it and and it lasts a while but it eases off quickly and then she breathes and she flows and then it repeats itself so you know the mind the the thoughts kind of

over do this you know and and kind of incapacitate apparently the body so and then it's waking up again and it's just the same yeah it's like breathing you know expanding contracting expanding Breathe let's breathe with it just breathe a little bit with it like it's okay that's that also wants some air breathe with it expanding

Contracting I kind of demonize the Contracting I see like you know this is a this is the the bed the bad side of it you know the bad side of you know it's like I wasn't quite honest with myself around that but um let's just watch its natural movement it wants to breathe let

breathe and you can invite it to self adjust your attention does that automatically anyway or you can invite it consciously to self adjust saying you're free you have full permission to self adjust get yourself comfortable into the natural state natural

form and when you say it what what it that it can it can self adjust because I don't that the energy the energy okay yeah

so now there is shyness oh sweet

yeah when we stop everything is welcome there's enough space for everything to show up as it wants and that attention itself your attention your attention itself is what these movements

need it's like there's this flower here a bud but for it to open to Blossom it wants Sun so your attention is like a sun that gives warmth and Light to that energy to

open it can do it's thing so what happens to the attention when I fall asleep cuz it's it's it's just at some point it's like oh where have I been you know a moment ago I know only that there is this kind of waking up and the tension the body uh mirrors something you know the body shows the contraction

that you know we can say that when the mind is active and is dreaming about other stuff that is not here then you wake up to being present that kind of shift of attention from imagined into the real or actual yeah we can see it waking up but yeah but again it's just a shift of attention dreaming I was dreaming that's true because of course sometimes you know I do notice you know that there is this kind of a middle ground where there is a presence to the to the dreaming you know awake dreaming awake funny I say that but it's like you know off the cuff of my hand that just kind of some little weird dream are happening having nothing to do with anything that is

happening so yeah I don't really like to dismiss the stories or dismiss the mind like you may hear all that's just thoughts it's not it's not just thoughts because they keep coming and keep coming that's part of the personality that's in other words it's a trapped energy that wants attention to self release and by saying well these are just thoughts or I'm just dreaming or it shouldn't be happening or in any way when we fight with a story we are not allowing the story to liberate itself and when it liberates itself then it can be here or not it doesn't matter it's welcome it's included it's not something that we need to fight with or you know guard against

so everything's included including the story including the thoughts including the dreaming including whatever is coming up that wants

attention but that's my view other people would say oh you just don't pay attention to thoughts don't pay attention to thoughts maybe that works too I'm not saying that it doesn't but from what I've seen is that these thoughts will keep coming until they get what they need and it's not really thoughts that coming it's that trapped energy that wants to open up and release that's why these thoughts are bringing it up bringing it up bringing it up so it's meeting that contraction or that pain on that wound fully that stops these thoughts from

coming somehow I understood that which is a surprise for me because it's you know it's not the first time I've heard it slightly different wording but yeah yeah yeah so it's more like I am here and whatever is arising it's valid so this is life's speaking as well yes yes even the personalties is you know

life so I am here whatever is coming wants my

attention if I give it freely if I don't fight then something can open up

yeah what I've been discovering this last few weeks is more that you know as if this movement is exclusively from from the body through the body through the experience but now I get it that you know just like the tip of the wave you know when there is a froth you know so it's just like that the thinking is also part of this wave that wants to uh have its place somehow yeah and that

yeah thank you very welcome beautiful thank you thank you everybody thank you everybody

can I say something please I just want to say thank you so much Kama that was so beautiful so authentic and um I it was

just it was just just I don't know the word fabulous

the word it comes is unconditional love it was a love being experienced that had no conditions which allowed like Ilona said allowed everything just to be there and

expressed thank you thank you

okay would anyone else like please

uh so refreshing today glad that uh I was able to hear this I've been I've been hanging out uh with a uh a radical non- dual crowd for a while okay right fun you know Jim Newman that that whole gang and

um I'm excited about it and I I've had lost the sense of a separate self many years ago but I think that it's it seems that it's been taken too far because to say that there's no subject object Duality at all there's no self at all uh just doesn't seem to to jive with my experience there are times when I can sit and the subject object duality will dissolve and there's a sense of Oneness and uh there's no sense of self whatsoever and uh you know it's just all process going on and how delightful but soon as I get together with my wife wife or my kids or I'm in a car or I'm driving in honesty that's not there anymore I'm dealing with with with a sense of self in that I'm here and those objects are out there and that's a stop sign and those are cars and and that that reality to it uh also I have a feeling that when I'm looking I'm looking from a particular point in space now that that point may be totally constructed mentally but what I like what you said and it stuck in my head and it was like dah it's a functional self it doesn't mean that there's a separate existence self but it's a functional self it's something that this biological body needs to function and uh you know if if there's no self at all you know why do I go on a diet to lose weight for what in the future

right I mean what's the point of it uh I me you could say oh it's just something that comes up in a thought it's just an experience it's just a desire well yeah but I'm doing it for a reason I'm suffering a little bit now or the body is suffering or there is a suffering a little bit arising and not eating and in the future I have a belief that I will feel better true or not I don't know but I may engage upon that at times other times I may not so I I think that it's it's a much more realistic and practical way to look at things from from this point of view uh because you I never get rid of a a felt sense of self I mean it's not there all the time right I mean you feel that there's somebody walking behind you you don't feel that way all behind if you do you have a problem but you know you're out on a dark street you have a feeling you turn around it's not a problem right it's just just it's just a protective motion uh and I think the self is the same way a felt sense of self trying to get rid of it all the time I'm trying to get rid of thoughts all the time I'm struggling oh there's thoughts you know why am I having any dialogue in my mind at all and there's a resistance and a contraction to it I'm I'm just identifying with what you said and hoping that uh maybe you'll clarify it a bit uh and I'm going to think about it you know be thinking about it but um I found it very uh common sense you know what I'm saying it it didn't like there's nothing difficult to believe there uh doesn't seem to be so much effort to to stop dualistic thinking you know to to stop any narration whatsoever uh I don't know what's your thoughts on that the radical non-duality of uh of that uh that group of Andreas you know I love it but it's a pointer it's not the truth it's a

pointer the truth is you know the human mind is too small to to know what this is and say oh this is how it is that's it for this limited small mind yes but there is so much more going on than the limited small mind it's it's what arises right and if it gets an idea okay now what know how it is I mean it's a

trap but as a pointer it's wonderful because it lets you to question um the beliefs that we have about reality about yourself and everything and it points to something and when it's seen you know you don't need a pointer anymore you don't need to repeat that pointer to yourself it matters that you see you know the simple thing you know the finger pointing to the Moon now I'm pointing to microphone so you can look at the finger or you can look at what it points to so if I have this pointed that there is no

self then yeah I look at that I look in my experience I recognize what it points to and that's it I carry on living life yeah but if I have to remind myself about it all the time there is no self uh you know this the story is just nothing because there is nobody here and all kind of that non duality radical non duality narrative then it's I'm looking at the finger and thinking that that's the truth it's a pointer yeah right it has its function it's wonderful it's very important at some point in life but once it's seen what it points to that's it unless you are kind of a teacher and you keep repeating that because new people come and and they need to see that as well

but there is absolute and there is relative there is God and there is a human there is whole and there is individual there is um Oneness and there is person it's all included yeah and it's all included and then we go around our lives and you know feeding cats taking care of business and making sure you have money in bank account and all that is

included so we don't need to carry on with that pointer when we're in a bank something no use there you seen the these cartoons you know all kinds of cartoons about yeah but there's nobody

here in the wrong place it's a joke in the right place it's very powerful and very how to say sharp weapon to to cut through the illusions

thank you

okay who else would like to explore or share

please so what does it feel like to be separate I don't understand that I say again how do how how does it feel to be separate from I don't know I don't understand to be separate from from what when you say separate I I don't get it yes yes the answer is yes

yeah it feels like a massive contraction I'm here the world is outside and it's against me and I have to fight and I have to you know go make things happen for me because I'm not cared for I'm not loved I'm not good enough and whatever other beliefs that support that feeling of contraction it just feels very contracted lonely alone

so that when you point to not

separate so that's the unfeeling of what you just said oh not separate is the background the background presence or

awareness and everything that arises and goes it's like waves in the ocean they don't have existence without the

ocean so this feeling of separateness is kind of like I'm a wave and look at me I'm going to run to the shore and die that's the end of me but it's like giving a voice to an imagined

subject and then has the whole story with it and the whole feelings with it and the whole behavior with

it but that's

misidentification and once it's seen through that that's not what I am a lot of that story just falls away naturally some things are stickier and they need to be worked on but that contraction starts to open

up there is comfort in being you as you are in your life in your body in your relationships in your

environment it's a feeling of Freedom being of how you are as this human

so separate is only when lost in

thoughts like if now here we we're here we are not we not separate yeah like you said from what that's the question I ask you when people are saying that I'm separate from what from life from from what from

nature and it runs until it's checked or until it's um become becomes conscious it can be our whole life experience feeling outside of Life cast away from life

but it's very interesting when you start looking at that what is that separateness how do you know it's even here what informs about the being

separate what if you never really heard about it before and then you hear that you're separate it's a little weird yeah it's weird it's weird because there's no nothing like it to find in experience it's imagine pure pure

fiction I see like you come to to to a lake and you take a finger and draw a circle on the top of the water and you look like oh there's a circle I just drew it but there's nothing there you know oh this this water is inside the circle that water is outside it's just like that you know it's drawing circle with a finger on the water it's not there but you can imagine you can get attached to it and be very very clingy to that separateness and insist that you are

separate and that's a lot of people's experience but when you start looking at it you see that there's no evidence of that

like what we thought that was separate me sometimes people say there is something inside there looking up like a separate contraction that's me or the heart is contracted that me but that that's a

contraction and the resistance is contraction and that resistance is holding it there because it's so precious it cannot be let go cause that's me

so when I'm say then I'm open to whatever arises everything then that Fades away by

itself but it was never there yeah it fades away

yeah it doesn't confuse it's not confusing anymore it's clear that whatever contraction or sensation or energy or emotion or whatever you want to call it is not me it's not what I am it's not even mine it's a phenomenon that is showing

up and there is enough space for

it is there that the contraction that that's how I show up

in in Life or I don't know how to put it I don't know why you want to feel separate no

no I think we come here to feel separate and then to dismantle

craziness thank you Ilona you're welcome you're welcome

okay would anyone else like to share explore please

I'll just quickly if I may kind of going back with uh what Cliff was talking about or asking um and then you answered it perfectly um let's see see I was reading a book and it and the author is Suzanne Segal um she said when when one realizes the unity of everything or the non-duality if you want to use that pointer of everything that's primary and then differentiation is secondary both are both are still necessary like you were saying you

so I don't know I just need wanted to say that because that helped helped me figure out what Cliff was talking about so

yeah one aspect of no self is object subject right or awareness and

content and then it seems like there's a gap and taking it from Human point of view I am here life is there

but it's not like it's

this that was cool uh it's like you could say if you again using these words like nonduality would be the

context and the separate self or or the functional self would be the content you have to still have both you have to have the context 
in which the content can go around and play around in oh that was cool

thanks now I'm looking at like human it's like a unit or organism there is a skin right there is a skin there's nervous system there is sensing environment there is knowing what's behind the back what's in front there is knowing how wide is the door so not you you don't bump into the frame when you're walking through you don't try to walk through the wall so there is that sensing of environment around the

body and I don't remember where I listened I and I got this idea they were talking about the skin as the organ for ego like ego individual self is the skin cause it separates inside from outside it has this sensing of what is me what is not me I thought that was pretty cool skin it's like that's what it does separates inside from outside and we feel outside through the skin and so is ego as a structure it senses what is here and what is not me like what other human or the cat or the table

something well I've been playing with the senses right the five senses sight touch taste all of that and again well like right

now I'm sitting in this chair but if I put my attention

on the butt in the chair all there is is sensation there so really in direct experience there's no body and no chair there's just sensation so that would be like No Object no subject no Homer no chair but at the same time I'm going to get up and walk like you said through a door so even though on the one hand there's no body sitting in the chair there's just sensation on the other hand I can tell where the body ends and the chair begins because I'm going to get up out of the chair and walk through a door so somehow and I don't know how that happened there's both of those perspectives are here there's no body sitting in the chair there it's just pure sensation and I know where the body starts and the chair ends I know the difference between the two so it's like that's it I know there's non dual just sensation and there's Duality body and chair there's no chair and no body and there's a body and a chair I don't know how any of that happened but yeah it's fascinating it is just

crazy thanks

yeah yeah well it's not this body suit space suit it wouldn't be this experience so it has to include that space

and if it's all a dream it's fine also

but that's what I said that with the limited mind The Limited mind cannot know the whole it will never know the whole even though there is such a desire such a need to understand for the safety of the

organism and it's a little bit sad that he cannot but it

cannot you know I I found that uh recently giving up on the idea of or the wanting or the desire to know has been very refreshing and liberating and um like why didn't I do that earlier why did I wait so long uh it just knowing just doesn't doesn't do it for me anymore I have no desire to know no desire to seek I'm not uh to understand it's just just not there and I and I find it absolutely delightful

sweet so you have no fear of not knowing because this is one of the biggest fears that people have not knowing yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's rather just to to to Delight in it just oh so it's a mystery it's wonderful it's not knowing isn't that great it's a s it's all a surprise it's like uh haven't seen this episode yet yes just just you know it's just really nice uh and they're realizing that there's nothing to know and you couldn't know it anyway it's all ineffable you know soon as you try to know it you just separate it out and reify it to give it a name and uh a belief and it's you know right not what you need to know you will know everything else is irrelevant yeah or or or what I don't know I got Google now so or AI what don't I care anymore right yeah if you have electricity if you don't that's it we don't know anything then that's

right yeah it's very liberating to arrive that that I don't know and I don't care

I don't care that I don't

know but you know I do know what it feels like I do remember what it feels like to feel separate uh and that was a you know a driving factor for 50 years you know that that sense of separateness that I was trying to reconcile and and to get rid of you know it was that was the whole thing uh I could I could remember it you know and this was me I was in this skin bag and everything else was out there and I was a small little tiniest bit in the gigantic universe and I was here for a short period of time and then I would be gone and uh nobody could really ever know what it feels like to be me or what I think or whatever and it was that sense of separateness and there was this always desire and I think this is you know an innate desire for human beings being pack animals that we are you know just like dogs we want to feel connected to the pack because if we don't we don't survive not you know in ancient days so there's that desire to feel that connection uh so without the separateness you know you realize that you you always are connected in so many more ways that you can't be unconnected even if you tried be impossible you know disconnected what the air from the sunlight from the food from the other people and just impossible but that created self you know that could be separate because it's not real so it just it just thinks that yeah very true maybe it's true it's not well feel right by my own experience very true yeah yeah

and that's the beauty of it also that you can speak from experience and that's what you know from your experience not from something that you heard or

read thank you so much for sharing

I was I was saying it um I wasn't saying but I think like I mentioned it to you one time before you know you helped me tremendously with this many many years ago I don't know how many many is I can't keep track of time anymore but five or 10 be longer so

great

our time is coming to the end and we're going to meet again next month in

January let me see the date just so I let you know right away

it's on 16th 16th of January yeah 16th of january oh we can continue

it's really great to be with you and thank you so much for showing today and sharing

and we can spend last few minutes just just being just being

thank you

until next time thank you