There Is Nothing Wrong With You Or Your Experience

There is nothing wrong with you or your experience. You may need to do a little inquiry into what is obscuring the peace. 

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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 80, There is nothing wrong with you or your experience

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you’re are interested in all things awakening, this podast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve had the privilege of guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life. Whether you’re a seeker, a teacher, or simply curious, there’s something here for you.


This episode is a recording of zoom event on the topic of seeing through the illusion of a separate self. you are welcome to join a monthly free meeting and bring in your questions. you will find details how to join in the description.
the topic of this meeting like every meeting on third Thursday of the month is the illusion of a separate self or what is this no self or separate self what is this person what is that that seems to be perceiving life that somehow is living here inside this body inside the mind making things happen and there are many many ways to inquire into that and then look into it from different angles and it's like collecting a puzzle this little piece fits here this little piece fits here and then suddenly there is a whole view what's going

on at the very end of the puzzle what is becoming clear is that there's nothing wrong with you

and that there is everything included that this Human Experience is exactly right there's nothing wrong with your experience and that allows one to really rest deeply and just be

yourself now how can I say that there is no I and yeah here you are isn't that funny there is no I as the Mind imagines it that image is not the I the sensations are not the I the contractions not the I but here you

are I recently bought uh reading glasses getting old so

it's like a shield there's me there behind the glasses there glasses there is outside world and now I'm seeing everything through the glasses it's a little bit funny but it's okay it's not the real picture but it's okay and these glasses are are not seeing anything they are not participating in the view they just change the view slightly and I do not see the glasses unless I look at the frame and become aware of it but what if these glasses are like like this I see everything through this me me me me me me can give it a name change name change a label a good person a bad person a mother a daughter a child a caretaker or a friend so if everything is being seen through this lens and then I forgot that there's something there but this lens is the one that is seeing

it the view is actually clear like this just seeing what is as it is so that me is like a third thing that comes in that is being given all the credit for everything in life I am doing I am feeling I am sitting I am talking seems like there's some kind of entity some person me that is interacting with life having a relationship with

life but you are here with and without Thoughts with and without feelings with and without any experiences all the experiences passing by the voice in the head

narrates everything through the first

perspective and it seems like there is this entity that is having the experience but what ishere if the mind is not talking what is here without

that we me

just this

 and because there are so many people sharing about their experience and now with internet and YouTube and everything like that it's just never ending stream of other people sharing it may appear that my experience is not enough it's not good enough something is lacking something is missing why am I not having that experience or when is this going to

happen and that's the search how to fix this me how to make this experience better or the way that I want it to be the I wants it to be and this is missing the point entirely because this experience is a gift such a gift it's Unique it's precisely what it needs to be and there is nothing wrong with this experience even though sometimes there are difficult Parts there are light Parts there are funny parts there are tragic Parts there is nothing wrong with the whole

experience so it's a relief to know that doesn't have to be

fixed and it may feel like a little bit of a trap because there is no way escaping it like you cannot run away from yourself anywhere you go your thoughts your feelings your stories everything is coming with

you but if I know that these stories is not what I am these feelings is not what I am it's what's arising what I

see what see through the eyes of a person the person arises the viewer arises just like

glasses then there is no need to run away from any of it everything's

included so your neighbors are included your parents are included your bosses are included annoying people are included lovely people are included  everything is included and that there is nothing wrong with it and if you hear but but but but oh there's something wrong Hm that's an interesting point to investigate because you're not here to please anyone or whoever told you ever that there is something wrong with you and you should be like this and you should be like that and don't feel this and don't say that and God forbid don't think negative thoughts or be angry or

cry this is not you this is the Mind creating a me that should be like this that's the picture this me should look like this and if it doesn't look like this then maybe somebody else in the same mind is going to get upset

so this me better behave and be like that picture in my mind wants this me to be tragic really because that doesn't allow us to relax and to be who we are in a natural state as we

come so there is a lot of work to polish that me to improve it to grow it to expand

it and yet it's just like a

whisp because that me that me changes constantly is not solid and if you start looking at it what is it what is that me in

experience it's tension it's contraction something felt in the body like that's me I know that feeling it's familiar that's me maybe it's in in the heart maybe it's in the head somewhere

hiding and the exit of all of this is very very quick and short and it doesn't require practice it doesn't require meditation it's just one question is there that me at

all I think there is yes okay I think there is I feel it I sense it there are thoughts there are Sensations there are feelings yes there sense of Contracting yes muscular tension yes which one of that is me

 so when this question arises is there a me at all is there this I this entity this somebody here in charge separated from life making life

happen the answer comes immediately because the mind goes blank it goes

uh and then but but but yes yes yes no no no and if arguing can start but the answer is that blankness that silence that's that's space that opens and is seen and is

missed and so what if there is no me at all the me as you thought to be so what nothing changes everything's the

same but maybe maybe then it's easier to to see that there's nothing wrong with you there's nothing wrong with your experience whatever is coming and going is just passing by the space that you

are and now hearing this do you have any but but but let's hear it let's explore it together this is just an intro a short intro

please Josh yes just unmute

yourself hi Ilona hi 

so yeah the thing you were saying about the me being like a

contraction I don't know if I've ever really experienced I was thinking about it the other day have I ever experienced a me and I I mean I kind of felt or believed that I hadn't but then I realized well there have been thoughts of a me that's continuous you know that so I don't know if it was like some kind of

like a division in my like a like a personal identity of not of believing I didn't have a me rather than having having clearly seen it

um so I guess

 yeah I don't know is that something that everyone kind of has or

oh it may be hiding in so many different places and

spaces interestingly if you start looking for that me there's nothing to

find nothing to find like there's nothing that the finger could point to you or land on they would be this

me but it can also be like um sense of doing controlling

thinking making things happen intending things happen wanting all kinds of different

places oh you may feel like a separateness like I am here the world is out there and I have to survive and I have to make this world to go the way I want

to it can also be a sense of poor me look what they did to me how dare

they it can also be a sense of Pride oh look at me I'm so good I'm the best

and they don't know I know it's always that division because that me is here with others he has to compare something something to compare

with isn't it it's kind of weird because the me like if we identifies all these different patterns of belief and we I mean this might be a conclusion I'm coming to but we just pick them up from life you know from we see something and then it gets stored in the body and while we're kind of not super conscious of our true nature we can't see it ourselves and then we go to it people go to teachers and then you kind of uncover or it feels like what's being uncovered is what what already was present there but and so it's like familiar there's this recognition oh yeah that's kind of like this or like like that in my life but that's also just another kind of reference point or identification so it's kind of weird in that realm it's

always yeah it's always it's like a ghost in a machine except that there is no ghost there's an idea that there is a ghost or that it's hiding if I cannot see it then that doesn't mean it doesn't exist kind of stuff MH but we cannot see what doesn't exist you can only see what is presently

here so how how can you see an absence of this me

that's a really good question because I don't know like some something obviously sees something right but

literally the shortest way is to see if that I or that me is here right

now and how do you know that

 I mean in a lot of direct pointing it seems like you can say you can recognize the peace of the present moment and say well without a thought there isn't me there isn't I'm not here as a individual or something there's only this kind of field of knowing or field of of being or presence

um but this seems like the is still kind of like I still appear

as okay if there is no thought about me what is here but don't look in thought if there is no thought what is besides thoughts underneath thoughts

right to say anything we again need to come back to thoughts and thinking and trying to describe but just as that question is asked the space opens it's

quiet do you get a sense of that

yes but when I say yes I don't I get the feeling like I don't know if you'll believe me which is weird not just kind of but it's simple isn't it it's not something that no that no one has real access to feeling it's kind of just here it's just so it's the simplest kind of thing yes  
yes you know when we wear kids running around not a care in the mind feeling safe if you're lucky but there was just that openness curiosity innocence playfulness

creativity that kind of feeling at ease natural state

it's nothing new it's familiar it's known it's

remembered nothing extraordinary it may seem extraordinary but it's it's something very familiar present all the time just somewhere in the background far far away from the busy busy mind is creating this ideas and personalities and everything like

that but that openness Comfort

safety can be found

yeah and it's beyond the Mind before the Mind before the Mind comes in with yes and no it's that sense of being

 is is there like

I guess what's been coming up for me probably for the last I don't know how long but it feels like there's this kind of

 like is it only it's only the mind that can say if an action that someone's doing is a good action or a bad action and whether an action that I've done is kind of bad or good or

but uh but then it doesn't make sense to me how you know if you recognize your true nature you're kind

of like the the naturalness means you're Kinder or you're more compassionate or I'm I'm guessing so that's what we would call goodness so there's still like a label for for goodness and things coming from unconsciousness or

where so if I walk around with glasses all my life and don't even know that this thing is called glasses and never taken it

off and then I take it off nothing changes so recognizing this for what it is doesn't change the view doesn't change the character doesn't change conditioning doesn't change anything but it's recognizing that yeah there is something extra here that is much more comfortable without it yeah when it's more comfortable then to relax and do things differently in life rather than from tension

 but it doesn't mean that all the conditioning suddenly is going to vanish just like

that so the person person doesn't change you are who you are you're not a person and the person that you see is

evolving but the conditioning doesn't dissolve just because you see that you are not this

person that this person refers to uh images ideas beliefs

conditioning the whole bundle of behaviors responses reactions that there's something here that sees

that and all this is playing out by itself unconsciously

automatically and you see that

it's a very interesting process because some some patterns they fall away naturally with ease other patterns they need some work but something is

changing right you like what you like and you're going to like what you like

 so the patterns

of of an i of a um a separate

self like those will still be appearing those still appear if I've if if recognition of true nature happens kind of in this form actually after that Point there'll still be a lot of conditioning and uh like up until the end of the the the life of the the kind of physical entity I don't know that because I haven't been at the end of the life yet but most

likely well in the beginning there are a lot of things to to take care of to I mean the longer you you go things still arise but it's not so intense it's not so

much maybe there are periods of more

intensity thank you you're welcome

I have cats here in the room and they don't talk they don't say I me mine they can still act in a selfish way they can still be very uh self oriented that's a pattern guess that's also nature

hello hello how are you great how are you um so um your pointers have been very helpful both uh on these videos and your other work um it's interesting and I really it's seeping in a lot and I'm seeing uh a lot of cool stuff and when I'm sitting or I am still and I'm getting out of nature going for long walks in the cold but I I actually enjoy it I go with my dog and my mind races like I know it's racing and I know I'm not doing it it's coming I I know it but what happens is all the pointers you give do this do that do this do that by time my two mile walks over you know what I mean so is it just the process of being patient for it to mature to grow to other parts of life I mean even if I'm sitting with other people I'm still your pointers are very helpful very helpful but it's interesting when I go for these walks I purposely don't listen to music or listen to whatever and I don't take phone calls don't bring my phone and uh and just one of your thoughts on

that I hear you because there is a time

when the old system of belief is starting to crumble there are gaps in there some things no longer make sense and it's like oh doesn't feel comfortable because you know it's nice when everything is neat organized and you know who you are what life is and how it works you know but now there is some kind of a little earthquake there and there are some some things that don't make sense and the mind is like I need to make sense of that maybe this maybe that just placing like Tetris like playing Tetris now thing is falling into where is the space where is the space that here and this one is fall and that one is what to do oh my God but and that's a natural process it will play out but just yes as you said just being patient being patient and also curious because that's quite an interesting process going on there there many things they were taken for granted and then when there is a rip in this belief system then what now then there There's an opportunity and possibility to look freshly and see what is out there maybe it's not what was thought but now you can see how it

is okay yeah and it takes time I'm I'm always remembering that for me it was like a an amusement Park got open I didn't know it was there I thought entertainment is out there on TV or somewhere music or getting out with the friends or whatever but the amusement park was here there were so many rides so many stories so many beliefs I was

like uuuuh what's next this is happening so I used to watch movies I loved watching movies at some point and once that amusement park opened I could watch a movie I could sit in front of the TV and be so engrossed in that inner circus let's call it that that I wouldn't know what the movie was about it was just completely not connecting I could see this scene that scene and that scene and absolutely no idea what's going on because all attention was in this process of oh look at that oh my God what's going on here this is so much more interesting than that and even trying to follow that didn't work anymore for a

while yeah I've experienced that

actually yeah

definitely yeah there's so much energy needed to process what's going on with the belief system inerly yeah what Pops in is trying you I'm aware of that so all the a lot of pointers we've learned and I know even the basic ones like the question you presented today or who am I and and then in mind just and then you get like you know it's not you know what I mean like just trying to figure it out but I know you can't figure it out with the mind and then you know then it's circular but like I said if I'm sitting still even here now seeing
around it's like in a very short time it's opening so is I was just wondering if it's common from other people you work with with the walking and all that or like you said the TV it sounds like it happened to you it's common so it's nothing to uh you know you just got to be patient let the rose bloom right yeah there's nothing wrong yeah I know there's nothing wrong but I'm just no I get that I just it was just an interesting like from Stillness to moving how it changed do you see that a lot in other yeah well nothing's wrong okay gocha there is nothing wrong this is how it is and it's not maybe it's not what other people said or what you heard but this is how it is and you know that by experience that's how it is yes this is how it

is and who's to say how it should be for

you this voice in the head doesn't know anything how it should be better employed if it just describes what it is

yeah so it's a little bit of a circus going on all the monkeys they don't know where they belong they need to settle in a new position learn new circus

numbers so what helps is just being kind to yourself I mean being kind to the mind it's

working that's a good way yeah and respecting all the work that it's

doing thank you thank you

I recently spoke to somebody just for an hour that the person was so lost in head it was very

complicated and there was no no recognition of reality or actuality or what is absolutely because everything was going through concepts

and yeah it was very difficult that that mind can be so tricky to deny experience to avoid looking into it even for whatever reason to escape that would it would create the the bubble of illusion complete illusion I would believe it protected it would argue and don't even go there or touch it there's no opening for deconstruction to even

start and the person said they've been into this for a few years

that's just the power of that belief the power of that

contraction to distort everything so that you would can keep the

beliefs like not everyone is given that um ability or possibility or a gift of questioning or inquiry or even wanting to know who I'm I or what's going on here not everyone is given that question or that willingness openness to find out but even some people are given that Curiosity let's

say there is so

much against that there's so difficult to penetrate that protection of the current belief system that the mind will do anything and everything not to allow that doubt in because what penetrates through is the doubt like doubt is all such a bad thing I don't want to have doubt but the doubt is what opens up the door into questioning so if I know how it is if I know how it is there's no openness but what if I don't know aha now there is an openness now there is a possibility to find out something maybe that wasn't thought

before so doubt has its very very good place here in this questioning we can't question anything if we don't doubt

so I love uh you speaking about the doubt and somehow it just has an impact on um on um on an approach somehow that I have judged doubt and it just feels um kind kind of sanctioned you know that um it's such a beautiful possibility to doubt just turning it upside down for me right now but I am today and you know I spoke to you earlier today and I am today with this unlinking of the Mind the thought MH with experience and kind of how it unlinks itself you know every time it's seen that it's uh it's like a leaning of the Mind onto the experience um there is nothing in common in a way the experiences the experience and then there is a sound in the mind allowed um

um I don't know where I'm going with just sharing um you know what's for me Most Fascinating is this do you have some water somewhere you can

drink yeah let's try that do you have water I have some remains of tea ah okay it really works nice with water because it's so common we drink it every day right water is

essential and

yet what does it taste like can you describe the taste of

water actually there are differences in Taste of water I must say okay but how do you describe I know what you mean yeah um but but essentially I I couldn't yeah yeah so whatever words come in I don't know I would say it's tasteless basically okay that's a description right so whatever labels or descriptions come in about the experience it cannot touch it it's so

different like the

experience and the word oh tastes like tasteless tastes like nothing

these words or these Concepts they are secondary they don't even touch experience the Mind translates what's going on here into words it's like translation of experience into words but these words they are not

experience the experience is not touched H sorry and the words are um just sounds that are agreed upon in in a culture that they mean

something and that that one thought which is I I the moment I can't quite get there not clear that there can be a thought like I thought and then there has to be certain leaning into it in for the personality to arise kind of take shape um but then the question is who is leaning into that thought because the thought can can pass through you know so it's like the thought I am here and it's gone and there wasn't a but

then there when I believe the thought but who believes the thought so there isn't any who I find so there is an action of believing

mhm um it's like a velcro but there is nothing that velcro onto that thought yes it's more like a teflon

This Is My Mind [Laughter] starts yeah but it's kind of starts breaking up my mind because there is no more the logic breaks at that point because it's like what is velcroing or you know trying to stick to the thought for instance you know yeah yeah I hear you it's a little bit like you know we you wearing clothes okay we put the clothes on and we go out in the world with the clothes on but we are not the clothes I'm not this

top so this identity is like that like a t-shirt we go out we put it on but I'm not this invisible uh energetic contraction dress so it's like becoming uh not becoming but Unbecoming in a way yes and yet still this can be on it can be on there is nothing wrong with it can be on but there is that knowing that I'm not that so it can be on or off this matter you know usually when you're on your own in your house there is nobody there there's not expecting for anyone to arrive and you are completely relaxed let's say say you completely relaxed let's say yeah yeah and then phone rings and it's your mom or somebody that you have a close connection to you and then that relaxation may go oh I know what I am now I'm a daughter I have a conversation with my mom and this is the role this is the

projection that is coming online and there there's an exchange going on according to the programming of how this person interacts with that

person and then the phone down there may be thoughts after thoughts still compressing or relaxing depends but after a while it's like oh here you go I don't need to play any role now so what

happens the energy the expanded energy openness suddenly takes a form and plays us through that form that program that has been set for years like thoughts images knowing beliefs everything with it Behavior

that little ball of me

but as it comes online it also disappears it's not you it's not what you are

so this connects for me with also the physical experience so the experience of looking so often is that I am let's say I have a tension here and I'm looking from somewhere can be different place down here and then I am trying to to look at this particular tension from which apparently I am looking at mhm there is a kind of a frustration as I kind of get locked into a particular tension somewhere like a boundary even behind body and I guess it's a belief that I must believe in that I cannot move outside of the tension that there is a limit to my looking from mhm but you are seeing that tension right you seeing the first tension and then you are seeing the second tension so I'm seeing that that tension I go into let's say this tension here MH then I am kind of going underneath the tension and looking from [Laughter] underneath tension um and then I'm going into that tension that third tension and as I am in within that tension there is it's like being in the cloud it's it unravels you know it's just unravels um I cannot find

anything and then I'm then then then my my attention goes to another tension which is still a little bit lower so I kind I kind of don't follow through this unraveling but just the tension jumps onto another tension which is

here you know and it's like it's like a maze of tensions you know and then yes and and look at the words as well tension and and attention tension attention so what the tension wants is the friend attention to be on it then it can release the tension is here saying give me attention I need attention

mhm and it's going to be here till that attention is going here and softly gently watching letting it be allows that energy to open up and

resolve and so I've experienced it you know uncountable number of times but also the tension comes back in the same place in the same way over and over and over

so I mean it doesn't mean anything and yet it it it's a repetition you know it seems like it's the same tension you know in the same way M and then I have a thought which I believe that I should don't need or must resolve the tension which is a thought yeah yeah and that's that is the tension that is the tension of uh assuming that it's your job to resolve the tension but the tension self

resolves you can't do it

so another thought which is behind that is that I should create environment in which the thought the tension can resolve itself you know it's kind of clever yeah let's notice that one too because this is also tense like I should already tension yeah so literally what you are following through is the next piece of information that gets your system to contract yes like the next belief the next contract that yeah informs your system to contract yes there are a lot of contract contracts yes a lot of contracts lots of contractions tensions and all it needs is attention attending to it

attending so uh why don't I make the decision to attend to it more often you know like throughout the day you know when it feels the priority you know for me it seems there is nothing more important you know than to

um let this life being lived undistorted for instance um and yet I don't

give full attention you know far from that to that yeah and I cannot force myself to make a decision I've done it before and then it's a backlash you know if I just said meditated and it was just not good idea okay but let's go back to right to the beginning my opening statement there is nothing wrong with you there's nothing wrong with your experience that's how it

is okay so this is we are speaking about resistance and that there is nothing wrong with resistance yeah to attending and giving attention to the tension yeah so every moment is expressing exactly the right way how about

that there may be a voice in the head saying that this is not enough I should be doing more I miss my opportunities I have to try harder right okay yeah so I'm comparing to something either time to the past or to the people or I generalize and compare this generalization moment you said about something you know it just kind of brought me into this moment

then then it resolves somehow

right and when it resolves it it's kind of funny isn't

it a little bit H there's there's some laughter or Joy or something it's like that's

fun the point is we didn't create this universe we didn't I didn't I didn't make these colors to appear how they appear or vibrations that we call sound I didn't make it happen I'm not the designer of the universe now to sit back here and imagine or assume that it's not working and I have to fix it it's kind of ridiculous don't you think it kind of is

yes ridiculously ridiculous you know so something put me in the position of managing the universe saying I should be doing this life should be doing that um I should feel some something else or I need to have different experiences like other people have that's kind of thinking that life doesn't know what it's doing or that this intelligence doesn't know how to run the show or the laws of nature are not working and here I am I know how it should be look at

me yes so that one of the Trump cards I I I seem to hold is that I should work harder inquire longer you know um not distract in different way so this is one of these management projects uhuh yeah oh good to notice

that but then the doubt comes and you know it goes the other way around the doubt rather than doubting the conclusions I doubt that I doubt the okayness of that yeah right but you can always check with the okayness you can always check is it okay is it okay for this experience right now of this moment to be as it is yes you can check the moment it's it's instant the moment I kind of wake to to this moment up rather than I'm in some kind of picture of life or day or whatever it is time the moment it kind of aligns the attention I don't know what attention probably um it's obvious that it's okay at the moment at least yes at the moment

even doubting is okay even the and this is you see there was a rise in my body like an energy came up and then the the name came that this is the doubt you know this this consensus came up but even that is okay yeah it's included it's included it can be

thank you you're welcome

I just asked you a question following up with your discussion with K yes K I can totally relate by the way totally get it and I've heard you discuss resistance and sometimes this helps me and I know you said attenion to tension that does work sometimes but sometimes I've heard you say this and correct me and found wrong saying asking the tension what are you trying to tell me and that really helps so is that a different door you could go to towards the tension or you didn't say that yeah yeah yeah yeah resistance is is very interesting phenomenon it's one of the most interesting

things it's so misunderstood and it it also steals so much

energy yeah it's very rich ground to

explore and simply put it's your best guide you know don't need Angels or anything you have your own resistance that can guide you out of the maze into the lightness

it's your guide it's your friend it is here to protect okay so it has an agreement a contract to protect something and it was needed at the

time and it's working perfectly it's no failing it's just doing what it's been instructed to do by the

system and years and years and years of new instructions has built all this structure of Defense defense defense defense something is being

defended we feel that defense as a contraction but have you ever looked behind it what is there that that protection is protecting like what is there

and when you start looking you may find that there may be an image there may be an idea there may be a

sensation there may be

nothing and then you can look and does that really need protection is it still helping is that particular protection is still functioning in the right way and if not it falls away because the system is designed to run smoothly and in support of each parts support each other so when that particular program is seen as redundant or even harming the system it falls

away unless there is something in installed that is not yours like a parasite then it's a different

conversation but otherwise resistance is saying oh you haven't looked behind that door do you want to look now or you're going to let me run for another 20 years and then you're going to

look so how do you know when to see it I see you then it disolves

I guess you would know and if it doesn't dissolve then you could say is it's helping me or I know there's many things you could do or say what are you trying to tell me you just have to yeah you can talk to it yeah basically if you if you you see resistance as a friend you can talk to a friend

thanks

welcome I just have a add-on add-on yes head on Resistance because you said to look behind but there is no behind I'm just checking that there I cannot find the behind it's like there is no behind you know there is a contraction yeah yes and there is you know where is the behind I cannot find the behind so if there is no behind it cannot protect there is no behind it's just an add-on from yes yes

from so there is nothing there to

protect I can't find anything there is just contraction it's like a fist contracting in the space in the space this fist is in the space and that's it seems like this tension is protecting this space the space doesn't need to be protected by this

tension so it's even devoid of protecting really because if I take that word out then all is there is this experience thing of density kind of densification of space mhm it and it's meaningless yeah then

yeah but often very often the the protection is for the inner child inner child is words pointing to the Innocence openness playfulness preciousness this sweet little one very young

energy and if that comes up it's beautiful because then you can have a chat with that inner child with that energy and give it what it needs to relax and it is again attention love kindness just holding in like meeting that energy

fully cause that's when it started in childhood the protection started being built in childhood

and that's where they get resolved at the

root it makes sense and yet I I personally don't have any experiences of childhood innocence or care freeness or um lightness or anything you know I don't have such memories mhm you know I I have you know memories of Extinction you know Annihilation that was in my environment was like Holocaust basically I'm from Poland and I was just today with it it was this this un unnamable experience of like falling and kind of um Extinction the word extinction came actually experience of that that I couldn't name until today it came today so um I don't question that there must have been times when this innocence was directly experienced but I don't have a point mhm reference in terms of memory of that so it's like if I experience innocence or Joy or lightness these days it it's it it doesn't it doesn't associate with being a child I hear

you as if it hasn't happened you know there was a child yeah

yeah not everyone is so lucky to be born in a loving kind family in a nice country not

everyone

but but we are here as we are we have all these experiences as they

come it's not a complaint it's more that hard to relate that that this protection is of the inner child where the inner child you know of these qualities that you have mentioned it's more it's more um kind of opening and listening and wondering you know it's like okay so you know so what is being protected that when there is no intimation of this you know innocence as a child some somewhere being

protected and yet I can hear innocence as well right here right

now sometimes this innocence is so deep and preverbal that the 

conscious mind or the memory has no reference there were no language then

yes that feels more like it you know that preverbal I can feel it's when the the baby is conceived when it's just a tiny little thing inside Mom it already absorbs the energies from environment emotions from

Mum and it you know all the programming is being installed then in a preverbal unsafety horror fear

sadness it can come through that and then you can live in the system whole life until it's

recognized and kind of dealt with it from The Adult point of view nurturing the the innocence of the inner

child giving it love

now you say love and I was just experiencing this love for him uh like it's within this

it's as if love was has been always preserved in this um

Extinction environment um like a preservation of it for for for it to become um consciously loved somehow yeah

that's it thank you 

thank you

okay for the Finish let's remember let's remember that there is nothing wrong with you there's nothing wrong with experience everything's included 

and here we are all the waves suddenly feel like poof something fell off got quiet

and thank you everyone thank you being here sharing listening holding this

space thanks Ilona it's beautiful thank 

you thank you Ilona a lot of great

stuff thank you