Best Kept Secret for Spiritual Seekers in 2025 (with Pamela Wilson)

Renowned spiritual teacher Pamela Wilson reveals a must-know secret that every seeker has been waiting for - a powerful tip to transform your life and relationships, both with yourself and others. Try it out and share how this life-changing secret works for you in the fan mail.

 
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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 82 The Must-Know Secret for Every Spiritual Seeker with Pamela Wilson.
My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are interested in all things awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life. Whether you’re a seeker, a teacher, or simply curious, there’s something here for you.


Renowned spiritual teacher Pamela Wilson reveals a must-know secret that every seeker has been waiting for - a powerful tip to transform your life and relationships, both with yourself and others. Try it out and share in the comments how this life-changing secret works for you. 

 hello Pamela hello good to be

together I'm so grateful and honored that you came to share with my audience oh anytime I'm honored to meet new friends

yeah today I'm speaking to Pamela Wilson and Pamela has played a major role in my own Awakening or evolving or learning and teaching I'm eternally grateful to you because years ago I think it was 2011 yes I met you the first time in a satsang in London and it your presence there blew me away I saw the kindness that I never knew that something was radiating of you so strongly that all I wanted was to hug you I was

like yes please extra hugs extra hugs yeah and then I saw how you are working with people and how gently and softly and kindly you would invite all these tensions to relax and to resolve and to just you know giving it attention and talking to this and that gave me such an inspiration to play without myself to try that out and so it did and I experienced that it works and that's how my journey of really assisting people started so thank you so much for that

great oh thank you for being a messenger we're all Messengers of what we love

yeah so this podcast is called Awakening now and let's talk about Awakening now good idea yes Humanity needs everyone who's listening to awaken now yeah each one of us has a precious gift to give humanity and to Nature and to ourselves of course yeah so and it's so simple because it's already there already there um in a few words how would you define what is Awakening it's it's what we remember from When We Were Young if we felt safe enough or each one of us will remember moments of um where we really saw how simple and clear everything could be and then each one of us would notice the chaos around us or how the adults so-called adults um complicated everything and made themselves very stressed and um so already there was the clear seeing there when we were really young young and then we go to school and they train the mind into contracting to function to figure everything out to bring this radiant intelligence in and kind of compress it and and that's what obscures the original seeing is that the body mind contracted to function and we all did it's nothing personal so we say part of wakefulness is relaxing yeah and then reassuring the mind that it's safe to open again it won't lose any practical creative intelligence reassuring the heart it's safe to spread our wings and to also reassure our innocence that it's safe to stand tall and be and be the mountain mountain of Truth yeah so there's just a few reassuring kind of like inner satsangs that are needed and then everything remembers because it didn't really forget only the head forgot the head forgot and everything else remembers I think it pretends that it forgot that's it nicely said yeah nicely said yeah we got in trouble if the Mind relaxed open in school and became kind of empty and spacious so then there's a little bit of a taboo about that

so as you were talking I remembered that when I was a child if I was on my own in a house then I would be feeling so expanded I couldn't function literally I was just like feeling expanded so I would only contract and function when somebody was around like on somebody a brother mother father was around and I would contract on my own I was just... oh beautiful you were just open open space like the sky yeah it felt strange though

I didn't know what that was but it's remembering that right oh yeah yeah and for each one of us it'll be slightly unique yeah for some of us having heard music again you realize that you're the silence that can hear sound or somebody noticing how fast a bird can fly and you realize that wow I must be so still that I'm drawn by movement so it doesn't matter how we notice our Essence could be through meditation or longdistance running or some sort of shock or

loss could be even exhaustion I used to say there's Grace in exhaustion from playing a role or being in a function too long

or it's nice to

just

stop stop and be and listen

yes so already everyone listening on the call is aware right if we asked them are you aware they'd say of course what a silly question silly question we want awareness to turn around and look at itself because of course it's Enchanted and entranced by all the movements and experiences and all the colors and the uniqueness of what we see but we invite it just for a fun really because this is all about fun and relaxation and curiosity we invite it to turn around and look into itself awareness or even intelligence can turn around in the head and look into its Essence so it's more kind of like just a little turn around inside you know rather than going oh it's probably out here Freedom yeah God is somewhere there he sees me

yeah so we're very very lucky to be modern sages all of us because the pointings are super simple that it's already here you already are that even though the Mind likes complexity the rest of us loves Simplicity as long as it's authentic yeah

and it's a lot more fun to be yourself rather than play a role yeah yeah and isn't that interesting that when people are looking when a Seeker is looking for who am I what am I to find that essence there is fear that arises often there is fear to see yourself as you are it's interesting because when we see that innocence the Purity it's how could you ever fear that it's not about that is it and playful and yeah but there's such a fear like to disappear to or to go insane or to lose family or whatever you know it's a strong fear comes could you could you help with that a little bit Yeah because I think underneath the specific fears of vastness or emptiness or some imaginary future loss it's it's more the fear of relaxation because when we were little if we were lucky enough we lived relaxed curiosity and playfulness and exploration and then somehow most of of us got shocked out of that and the body mind Associates the contrast of being like just and then something scary happening and getting shocked into tension or tightness or protection it just doesn't want the intensity of that contrast again so there's a systematic kind of protecting against relaxing too deeply you know and it's very innocent cuz you say but but you like

relaxing yes but not too much so it's about that fear of the contrast not to be shocked again kind of that's it that's it yeah yeah and yet here we are we're so resilient I mean oh amazing plus you add in being Eternal because Essence and uniqueness are Eternal so then you really can relax

 I find that for some people that feeling of safety or being safe wasn't installed correctly let's say oh good point yeah yeah it wasn't because maybe they were born in a family where even before the birth there was a lot of stress and Trauma strong emotions and they don't even know that sense of safety like can't remember well it was there before but there is no memory of that but there is no sense that it's possible let's say that can we look at that but just to be aware of that is a beautiful place to start because then the inquiry is about the the felt sense of safety and I mean just be curious during the day when are the moments when you feel safe and when are the moments when you don't often for a lot of us we feel safer on our own some folks feel safer with lots of people but it's more about saying what is safety for me you know for each one of us and that would be different it could be sitting with a friend having a tea or going for a walk in the woods or watching the birds soar or looking at the evening Sky we don't know we listening to music so it's a beautiful inquiry I find anything you inquire into leads you to Stillness because everything is animated by Stillness so you could start with you know I don't like my neighbor because all of a sudden you're like oh my God I feel so much better you have to stay with things a little bit longer if there's strong aversions but

or some it could be you know in the shower noticing in the morning shower that the body unwinds and thought quiets and there's just the sensation of the water it's beautiful I mean if if you start noticing everything can be meditation it doesn't have to be on your couch or I used to have great moments when I lived in a big city and there would be traffic so we just go okay great I can't go anywhere so it's like so everywhere

 well they learned from you and which is very helpful is that the heart is home for the mind that's it so you know this saying that this it's the short Journey it's really that long the whole journey of the seeker is only I don't know for me it's 30 centimetres right that's right they don't have to go all the way around the world hm could you share more about that well you know I also want to bring awareness to that the mind has a heart even up here but since it's in too small a space it it just Swirls and it a doesn't notice that the reason it's working so hard is because it loves us wants the best for us wants to fulfill our desires so it it we also never give it approval yeah so I really like thanking the mind because it's worked tirelessly for most of us decades and who knows lifetimes to keep us safe while making sure we don't relax too

deeply that's sort of funny so but the mind has heart up here otherwise it wouldn't worry ever and it wouldn't be Pure service in service to the embodiment and anything else we're passionate about the Arts or science or wakefulness um but it it helps for the as you said the mind to know it also can rest because nobody ever told us that when we were little but just invite your mind to rest we'd all be going

what yeah so it's very sweet the mind can rest here in the heart as you

say and it it might protest it might say but who is going to organize you or who is going to get the job done but it's a weird it could be in western civilization this idea that effort equals productivity or you know and it's not true really it's not true we can relax and still create relax and still function relax and still attend to what needs tending so I'm all for relaxation and I think we're all beginners it could be an infinite exploration

that would be

good like the cats you have cats in the in the Next Room they're

experts experts at playing and experts at stretching experts at resting and being naughty too oh yeah that's it that's part of playing as long as they don't hurt anybody

sweet yeah because when mind is relaxed we can approach whatever is showing up with calmness being collected and being ready to respond rather than panicky stressed busy place but sometimes you know then the nervous system then needs to realize its true nature cause 
a lot of the function of the body is to maintain the history usually the uncomfortable history now why would you order let's maintain uncomfortable history rather than let's stay with beautiful all the Beautiful Moments record that but um then I think the nervous system can also realize its true nature the way the Mind does and the body and the

emotions important be nice to have freedom down to one's toes

yeah that's another question that pops in when people ask why do you need to stay in the body why the body why why why like you know all this Awakening somehow is going to take you out of the body like transcend the body get rid of

it coming back embodyment what's that about it's so important because your body is a transmitter so if you're you know you can still transmit as vastness but I think this these instruments are remarkable for Transmitting peace and balance and Stillness and love just the way music does so just the way a forest does so often if we walk in a forest we're going to feel the presence of the trees and it's in the space around the trees but sometimes you'll look at a tree and you like oh my that is a tree Sage you know that tree is really transmitting so I think embodiment is about amplifying experience and allowing the great mystery to explore its creation because if it's just sitting up there or wherever it's sitting just going wonder what the humans are doing but if it's really in the field so to speak as the field then it can have the full experience and then the body is like an opera house that amplifies everything so it's I think it's marvelous

marvelous

yeah yeah then the sense of bliss can come in that's it the Bliss of being yeah

yes I mean I think the only reason Humanity ever tried to get rid of the body is just because it hadn't understood the elemental nature of emotions or the elemental nature of the five elements that are the body you know so there's still an um aversion to being embodied because it's associated with

suffering but that falls away because so much of that is because of the role play I mean if we are Shakespearean actors there's going to be a few scenes where that are very beautiful and relaxing but there's going to be a lot of scenes where it's challenging devastating overwhelming horrendous disappointing loss of love you know it'll be a big mess but when you're out of the role play everything balances and sometimes there is you know some circumstances in the life that the body doesn't like of course but for the most part there's so much space to be with everything

yeah so still the movement of liking and not liking will happen in the body but there's a big space going yeah this too this too yeah

 so it's nice to include the emotions and the body and the the genius intellect and mind

and and what's about this Elemental thing can you oh I love that I love that can you talk about that well you know I'm very curious and I'm still exploring um so one day I realized you know what I like about the Opposites is that if I find a set of opposites then I know there's something bigger that's holding those opposites so then I go and look behind so one day I'm like sitting there and I'm going well wait a second human and divine those are a pair of opposites I wonder what's before that what's more ancient or simpler or and then I felt a deeper Stillness than just Divine Stillness which can be very Blissful and such a blessing but I felt a more um rooted Elemental substratum Stillness when I look behind that polarity and then I realize oh I'd much rather live there or from there so to speak rather than I'm human I'm Divine I'm human was

like I'd rather be this like Elemental substratum you know that doesn't have many labels on it and there's there's not many books written about it and there's no beliefs it's

just quiet and strong and wise and here and yeah

so that's you know it's just words really but it still points to something that's simpler and more palpable like Papaji used to talk about substratum a lot and I I totally didn't get it substratum

what but now as soon as I felt

that kind of of Elemental Stillness that is embodied and is nature and all that then I got it I got oh that's what he meant by substratum that which doesn't move and it was such a relief to find that within because for most of us if you had done a lot of practice or even if you did a lot of sports you would find the vast you know

open unmoving if you did a lot of sports you'd have to run for an hour or more something like that but to find it inside that

was such a

relief and for me it's a felt sense in the belly so in zen they say the head wakes up the heart wakes up and the belly wakes up so I didn't know what they meant about the belly waking up either like what so it's so nice oh that's what it is yeah deep ancient Stillness and wisdom

too not with a lot of language but with deep deep deep knowing

M so I can ask at anything I just go like

that so for most of us it's such a surprise to find out that we are that you know if you if you kind of do a little checklist about what allows me me awareness to be aware of movement it would be that you are already still you don't we don't move the bodies move so it's kind of fun to just check these things these ideas we have you know what allows us to hear it's it's not just hearing it's that we're

silent I mean there's all this really cool stuff you can notice you oh my God why don't they tell you that when you're five you know teach you about hearing and listening

and

resilience 

literally when that is being noticed there is a giggle or some Joy arises or something is Happy bubbling up no reason other than ah here it is go yeah it's like having one of those Mineral Springs inside of your body you

know

yeah so the body are all already realizes the Simplicity of what is yeah but the the mind was

trained into complexity so then it thinks truth is going to be in complexity rather than Simplicity and below the nose in the body everything is pretty simple it likes things and it doesn't like things and it when it's relaxed it opens and it can feel the Stillness when it's scared or tight starts to shake I mean so already there's Simplicity simple beingness here then up here is like where is this where is so the mind is the Seeker not us we're just listening to it

seek yeah we are what it finds eventually nicely said that's right in the last place it would look it would say you that's what I was looking for that's what I read all the books about it was all about this innocent presence really 

now it's quiet that's it no more questions okay I love that so funny but you know before there were the Mind picked up language when we were quite young it would have been absolutely quiet

so already the mind was quiet then it picked up language then it could start talking because otherwise what would it

say it couldn't say anything so that was another like wow that is so cool so every little kid has a quiet mind and then they pick up language and all of a sudden this starts going oh that what about

that oh my goodness and then some folks spend 40 50 years trying to get the mind to be quiet again

wow and tell me what works how to get that mind quiet again what's your recipe well I learned from Papaji just from one of his books you know he said look within approach everything with devotion and gratitude and

um even though I had realized my True nature I realized I wasn't Pamela the role or the history and all that stuff I didn't know what everything else was you know the Mind still seemed like it was identified even though I wasn't um so I read that approach everything with devotion and gratitude look look within approach everything with devotion and gratitude and said I never did that to the

mind I treated it like a mosquito or something and so I I did a

super sincere inner Namaste bow to it and it it was so shocked it kind of hopped and then burst open the mind and I went oh and then I apologized to it because I just the way it had tried to train me and suppress me and control me and through the spiritual practice here I'd been trying to do that to it and then I noticed the only thing that seems to awaken the mind at least through my experience is to be very respectful to

it and to reassure it as you said earlier that it doesn't have to go anywhere it's just going to relax open again and be big mind then it was going okay cool as long as I'm not getting fired yeah yeah I can be radiant mind yeah practical creative yeah so that really helped that beautiful invitation from Papaji to be respectful to

it and then we could have a deeper conversation the intelligence here and the intelligence here

that was something I learned from you that you can actually talk to the mind to the heart to any emotion any structure everything that shows up there can address that have a conversation maybe negotiate that's it yeah but above all to be respectful and kind as you said

earlier because a lot of um that which is restless inside of us just hadn't met respect or kindness and that's why it got restless and threatened and then you know then we're trying to get rid of everybody but they're all like no

MH but like let's hear your little rescue kittens after a while they go oh I start

puring may sound a little bit foreign to respect mind because it has been perceived as an enemy or a something here that is in a way to get rid of to shut it you know these things like h no thoughts people read about no thoughts and like oh there's something wrong with thoughts let's get rid of them supress them or how to get rid of thoughts and that's how it starts this disrespect because that intelligence is not recognized it's something to fight with and the only fight is within the mind that's right one part of the mind is trying to get rid of another part of the mind yeah a of have great compassion for the mind and the body and the emotions and for Humanity because it's really challenging even Yogananda used to get really mad at God and say you made this too

tough so it's so nice that this new generation of sages we make it super simple already here and we don't have to earn it I used that was another thing I had to do a lot of spiritual practice or give everything away and then I could be free you know I mean all this nonsense and now it's like well it's already here it's just hiding right behind the tension or right behind um worry or right behind exhaustion or right behind the anger big freedom

okay what's coming up is that word respect again he wants a little bit more clarification for example in my personal life when I was growing up I did not learn from my father respect let's say this I wasn't respecting him because of the family Dynamics how he was seen by my mom I I didn't learn to respect my father and he could not teach me respect so it's kind of that programming wasn't installed

correctly so this respect is saying now oh I want a little bit more attention I want to learn to respect I want to be more respectful you know it's kind of once again curiosity wondering because because there's these beautiful sutras from the ancient sages like all there is is presence or all there is is stillness or all there is is love and I like testing those you know so we will notice you know a family member or something now it's natural for our conditioning not to like their conditioning um so that's natural so those are just the argument between the conditioning but then if I look at who is behind the conditioning or who is behind that

role then I start to here I start to soften because if I have an aversion to somebody's role play or history or um then I can't really get to their true nature but if I honor their bodyguards or their conditioning or their tension or their habits or whatever then all of a sudden I can look behind that because that's just the costume department and the the theater of of persona and I can look behind that now I'm thinking of a someone in my family who I still have an aversion to based on their behavior and I can see the Innocence right behind it you know because most Behavior we don't like is designed to keep people away yeah and um it's quite fascinating if we add respect even to the bodyguards or to the tension or even the history if I bow to somebody's history

it starts to soften and dissolve and then I can see them and I can I can I'm looking at this one person I can feel the rigidity in the Persona because all personas are fake so they have to make themselves hard to main the shape so to speak so then I can bow to that and it's like bowing to somebody's Shields and I bow to the

shielding and then I see innocence right behind now innocence didn't do any of the weird stuff that the Persona did innocence was hidden in the back room while the Persona went out and made trouble and hurt people and yeah yeah it's beautiful so for me respect can sneak you in where nothing else

can and I I mean I did it like with my dad who is very powerful identified dad and I and I would just anytime I was going to go see him I would start bowing way before I even got into the room or his house and it it made such a difference and at the end he was like Ekhart

and I never spoke any truth with him it was more like honoring his original nature that was right behind all the nonsense and the all the shielding and all the even magnificence a a Persona can be quite magnificent as well but that's a shield too if it's in the Persona rather than in the natural magnificent so I just bow to anything that's my little trick so this is the best-kept secret that there can be that's it and that's what the sages used to do with wild animals as a lot of the sages in the different countries would go on retreat in very quiet Wilderness places but since they knew everything was Presence by Nature benevolent you know then if they came on a huge wild animal they

would be like that with a wild animal and then the wild animal go okay you can live here in the forest with me very nice very sweet so humans a lot of humans are like wild animals in a way and in a less than good way okay what comes to mind is you know very popular word these days is narcissist or somebody that is the role they play is very intense and something that the other person is suffering a lot because of that so would that work with these narcissistic personas as well that would be tricky the first thing would be to get away from the narcissist because otherwise you're locked in a um a play a Shakespearean play where the see the narcissist has a stronger intention to manipulate and to um to be uncomfortable so it's like their intention will be stronger than sometimes innocent naturalness I just want to be okay why don't you let me be kind of thing so It's Tricky if if you're around somebody who's not healthy and very manipulating that the most important thing is to get away from them otherwise you're in their movie MH you're not in your own movie you know so I find I mean I know for some folks you only find out later how manipulating somebody is but you do the best you can to take care of yourself yeah yeah very tricky so that bowing would not work

then let's see let's see if it could work

curious you would have to have you'd see the problem with being around unhealthy controlling manipulating people is they kind of sap your

energy and then their energy is stronger and higher so it's kind of hard to get bigger than them energetically as presence and then honor them but you could folks could start with they have an aversion to narcissistic manipulating controlling people see that would be how you'd get your power back you'd honor of course I have an aversion to that behavior it's actually healthy to have an aversion to that behavior so then I'd honor that a lot a lot and then the person would probably have to um really feed their big mountain strength a lot but also find the hurt inside because we all take everything so personally uh you know a narcissist will be a narcissist with everyone it's not per personal you know that's a helpful like oh good okay so there's no deficiency in me that's creating this Behavior no no no it's all over there yeah but you know it's kind to ourselves to spend time if we can unless it's a work situation with people that are healthy and balanced

so so be it may the whole tribe become healthy and balanced yeah because otherwise it really undermines well-being if we're always around folks that don't lift us or aren't natural or sincere or kind or yeah and everyone knows this but innocence keeps thinking oh but if I love them enough no you have to love yourself first yeah that's a tricky one it's a tricky one yeah tricky Persona because it's all

manipulation yeah I'm just curious is there this innocence deep deep deep inside of this oh absolutely but it you know in everyone the the first kind of um knot if one thinks of a weaving or knitting or making a fabric the first knot of identification in the mind would be I am less then that would be the first in Buddhism I I think they call it the deficient sense of self so that's not us it's the Mind thinking there's something wrong with it and it's because um as soon as it contracts somehow there's a remembrance that it used to

be magnificent and open and powerful and then it contracts and then it goes through something wrong with me and it can come in different words but that's the first knot and then on that the Persona tries to improve itself and fix itself and that's all it's all here backed by emotions and experiences so the thing is is to really honor yourself it's such a quick quick quick return back to balance because this is always saying we're less than and if we're all of a sudden no we're we're here we're wonderful we're doing the best we can like good job good

job good medicine simple

medicine yeah the words for that would be not enough this is mostly Express this I feel I'm not worthy I'm not enough yeah and then it hooks into the seeking because maybe if I'm enlightened or wise or uh achieve a certain level of something or other then I'll get respect yeah and it that's very innocent because our tribe is you know humanity is very into hierarchy

and and people don't realize how much they long for simple respect and regard and like Namaste we honor the Divine in you yeah but we have to give ourselves that we can't wait for everyone

else that's so wise and that's so true that this has been waiting for our own honoring our own respect love

acceptance and gratitude wow so grateful to the body for being so resilient

yeah and for the heart amazing for the heart to be so resilient wow

 I wonder if people realize how resilient they are how resilient their heart is I

mean how they're very longing for freedom and they're longing to live as love and Clarity and Stillness and how that confirms their decency their goodness yeah how it confirms that they want to be of service and to kind of the blooming of humanity so people could really give themselves a lot of approval and respect

just felt like um generations and generations and this ancient history of this waiting for that love to come to the foreground belonging comes from there I'm somewhere very very

old yeah and something that remembers living is love something that remembers being met as love you know being cherished as love so that one we bow to that one

well may all beings know themselves as love wouldn't that be amazing and if it happened in a heartbeat all over the planet you think it's possible yes because it's already there yeah and each generation of sages helps the unveiling so now the veils are very transparent whereas who knows you know back a few Generations you really had

to work hard to unveil the view or the Simplicity now no it's pretty simple now wouldn't it be nice if that was like a soap bubble that you just touch it that's it that's it that's one prayer I have how about right now for all beings I mean what's this postponement slow slow it's all slowly unfolding and returning

uh meanwhile innocence is hungry all over the world or doesn't have shelter food or water not

okay how about right now the All Hearts just go woo and the mind goes yes finally finally I'm here and that it' be really funny people would turn to each other and go what were we fighting

about and and somebody would say we can't remember but there was a waste of creativ creativity and a waste of 

Love such a powerful wish or powerful intention yeah that's it why not yeah why not if it's already here and there's no time and it doesn't have to be earned and it's already free why not right

now just a global

aha that's

H it is it's already happened it's so true it's so

true I like that thank you thank you for confirming

that

a h

so do you do group Gatherings online or locally or one on ones as well I do mostly one on ones and I have two groups a month in English and one group in Russian good good just for free as a offering everyone is welcome to join very important Yeah the more sages around the world the

better and I think anyone who's interested in the truth is a sage and it doesn't matter if you're a beginner Sage or a seasoned Sage decades into it you're still a sage it's all in there yeah very

cool sweet and you do you still work one on one I know you do groups love yeah I love doing private sessions because you can spend a whole hour diving into the mystery inside and you know transmuting and blessing and liberating and oh that's so cool and then I do two women's groups month and to General satsangs online yeah now it's just so sweet to be with folks as you know all over the world and and find out how much the same we all are we're wonderfully unique but we're all the same with the main heart longings and affinities things we love

yeah and how can people find you uh we have a website www Pamela satsang.com yeah yes thank you Ilona and how can people find you because this will go on my site too and then they'll want to sit with you my site is called ilonaciunaite.com just my name yeah so say that again it's my name ilonaciunaite.com oh that's it okay we'll write that down on our so it's yeah

good thank you so much likewise Heart to Heart like this

like very sweet oh thank you much love to you thank you everyone for watching for listening and you may want to watch this a few times because there is so much richness so much transmission going on here that it can unfold in a deeper Layers and you may hear a different message each time true thank you so much okay bye for now bye bye