This ONE SHIFT can change your ENTIRE Life (with Ishtar Thomas Howell)

What is the one life-changing shift? Find out what Ishtar has to share in his second interview. 

Ishtar Thomas Howell is a Meditation Teacher, Monk, Writer, Astrologer, Enthusiastic Gardener.

Ishtar Thomas Howell is a Meditation Teacher, Monk, Writer, Astrologer, and Enthusiastic Gardener. And today we explore the question of the most profound shift that can change one's life forever. 
Ishtar's websites: 
https://www.awakenedlightastrology.com/
https://www.ascension-meditation.com/


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http://www.IlonaCiunaite.com/sessions 

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Music by Valdi Sabev, Visit his channel for more calm and relaxed music 
https://www.youtube.com/c/ValdiSabev/featured

Websites
http://ilonaciunaite.com
http://liberationunleashed.com

Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 83 This ONE SHIFT that can change your ENTIRE life with Ishtar Thomas Howell
My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are interested in all things awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life. Whether you’re a seeker, a teacher, or simply curious, there’s something here for you.

What is the one life-changing shift? Find out what Ishtar has to share in his second interview. 

Ishtar Thomas Howell is a Meditation Teacher, Monk, Writer, Astrologer, Enthusiastic Gardener. Ad today we talk about this one shift that can change entire life.

hello hello Ilona it's nice to see you again yes wonderful to have you here in the show again and today let's talk about this one shift that changed or it has the potential to change somebody's entire life beautiful absolutely so what was that one shift for you uh that one shift for me was in in a million different flavors or maybe a thousand different flavors the million's a lot but in a thousand different ways finding some place that doesn't change finding finding a strata of Consciousness that when I quote unquote found it uh realized that it had been there peeking around corners uh waiting patiently in the back of my mind underneath all the thoughts that I was having uh finding that that space that that's is not a space that's seemingly endless and and that uh is is the thing that really uh changed everything you remember the moments is it it was something like oh aha moment or some kind of oh experience or was it gradual that you didn't even noce it was It was kind of both uh definitely a lot of aha moments that were that were gradual to to the point that you don't always uh notice the the first one as you know this is this is it we're irrevocably changed never to have uh some sort of never to have suffering or never to have a neurotic thought uh I can't say that that was my experience uh there there was a lot of yo-yoing in and out and and kind of having these pockets of falling it but let me try to remember the first time that's difficult of of short of short of um sort of all the accidental dips in which which are wonderful which which were many uh maybe there was when I started meditation and I I can remember uh sitting down uh with you know a new type of technique and basically thinking a mantra mhm and following this Mantra and previously to that meditation had often been much more of a struggle uh it was something where I was trying to tame the mind and you know through concentration and actually have say there were there was some benefits in that there I I think I was touching silence but not enough for me to really notice it and so somehow following this Mantra took me very very quickly into Infinite Space it was the darnest thing uh I remember the the teachers of the class uh were telling me to giving me instructions that were very very different than the instructions i' had previously been given and and I was you know thinking in my mind as I've got my eyes closed sitting in this chair oh this can't possibly work you know not not trying to control the mind not trying to fight it and and then I I noticed that my my right hand was just completely relaxed uh just just completely immobilized but in a delightful way and I was like what in the you know before I could finish the question what in the world in my in my head I found myself uh as if my attention had just gone 180 as if as if most of the rest of the time I had my attention had been sort of stuck in this kind of uh you know half dome of of of thoughts all over the place and and then the Dome flipped and and all of a sudden it was like I had an eye that was that was looking into just immense Infinite Space that and and I say infinite you know I don't know but it of just a sense of vastness that had really no ending uh and that that was powerful and and that that sort of sort of ushered in uh several days of no matter what I was doing eating joking around attending more class going to the bookstore in between Class sessions of having sushi whatever it was that going on that weekend there was a sense of this presence that was just sitting there that was looking out through my body that was that was kind of underneath the the the dining table that I I picked a book off a shelf at a at a bookstore and there was a a sense of that inside there too so that was magical uh that was really though a start because you know it's kind of like the magic um faded to a certain degree and and but thankfully I I was sort of put there long enough to Really register okay you know there's there's there's definitely a different way this nervous system can be used in a consistent manner without me having to you know sort of be a crazy aesthetic all the time you know and and and you know try to control everything uh yeah so that that was quite

memorable wonderful and that recognition that one recognition changed your entire life yeah I'd say so yeah yeah and and I also I think the sense that uh there was maybe you know I'm not quite sure about Free Will and all that stuff I'll table that question but but that there was a sense that there was some kind of agency right that that you know I didn't have to just sort of accidentally you know wake up on the right side of the bed and find myself having a bunch of peak experiences or that I didn't have to you know go through the trouble of a near-death experience right you know I didn't have to you know all these things that you really have zero agency and a lot of my the mystical experiences or the experiences of of of presence or or you know similar flavors of Consciousness came through accident but to have a sense that wow I could actually engage in in practice and and have kind of predictable results that was that was just um yeah of revelatory

yeah and the funny thing is though you know it's like of you know and you go would have this experience you kind of dip into this uh wonderful space and then maybe uh you know the next day the the tone of the day of course might be in some ways back to normal and I I was like oh you know almost having more of you know content of sort of that you know neurotic thoughts and and of of emotions coming up that I didn't want to deal with and and all of that sort of thing and and so that you know momentarily that was uh sort of dismaying to me um thankfully uh when I took the meditation class the the the teachers were saying like well you know kind of set me up for that in a way and said okay well that's kind of predictable you're going to have go through these Cycles in this process that you know that that your mind's you know be be able to shift into into the Strat of Consciousness but but you're sort of a multi-layered being you have such a thing as a body which I needed reminding of frequently in those days you know you have a body you have a psychology you have a lot of layers you know and all these layers are going to be sort of releasing healing opening up jettisoning old tensions and and then sort of that that release of that process of releasing tensions of you're probably going to have some pretty shitty days and I was I was grateful that that was you know kind of laid out before me not like it made me enjoy the shitty days anymore uh but but you know there we were and so then for a long time there's this process of having really wonderful Clarity and and be and and sort of you know having days uh where the meditation practice and outside of the meditation practice there would be this sense of this again this kind of background presence sometimes a foreground presence mhm and synchronicity and then the next day it would just be like feeling wake up feeling like I just got hit by a truck and and you like you know nobody punched me why why why why am I sore all over and you know this is one of most common questions that people ask after after just having a shift it's like why is it that I felt this wonderful and now it's just like stepping back or I feel like nothing changed and yeah this is this is natural this is normal this is how it goes it's nothing wrong with it yeah yeah and and uh I I I think it's in some ways if if one persists in in something that's working then then it's it's strengthening in in the sense have being able to kind of modulate back and forth uh between vastness and you know kind of contraction opening contraction as long as one kind of keeps going the the contractive States you know are are increasingly expansive sort of the Baseline of experience moves so so I think there's there's some benefit to having expansion contraction expansion contraction and sort of the the analogy that was used at my meditation class which I think is sort of uh very also very common to see like transcendental meditation classes is the the analogy of of that the M that the mind being dipped into presence into silence into somadhi is is very similar to a cloth being dipped into dye and then being pulled out to dry in the sun and and at at first when the when the blank cloth comes out of the dye the the color of the dye is really deep in it but then you you you put it on the clothes line and and the sun really takes it back back almost all the way to the to the base neutral color but there's a little bit of the dye that is still in there oh that's that that's permanent and and so by and that's the analogy just by sort of being persistent you we might not notice that that each day the dye is a little bit deeper it just it uh but you know after some time after after some months after some years what whatever it happens to be uh well there we go now now we've got um a purple cloth at some point so and yeah you're right it's one of the most common questions I I'll get because it's a very common experience where people will have at first what in their minds they've set up as oh this is a successful meditation session then the next day they'll say like they I'll get an email and they'll be like well I'm having more thoughts than before or or you know things are things are you know much much busier and u I mean typically that that's of uh that that's one of two things uh on the one hand they might be having this this profound release of tensions that that is causing all sorts of activity which which often gets picked up as as increased thoughts on the other hand they're just actually more present and it's not like the volume has increased they're just their attention is able to to actually pick up on the on the full extent of of what's there oh that's a great point mhm

yeah yeah I like to remember that breathing is expansion and

contraction it's just the rhythm of nature everything breathes so is this experience is also breathing expanding yeah coming back

exhaling a little bit like an accordion you know you have to have both to have the music you can't just go ah yeah exactly uh exactly uh of course I think I just wanted all the expansion and and no you know no no

contraction yeah the the other thing about if we're going to talk about that that one shift I mean it's of course it's that one shift that most of us have to have a million times in in a way but but uh the importance of that one shift in in my experience was was actually related to love of and related to uh worth and so it's really where the rubber hits the road for for most of us and and so that very quickly that sort of dip into to this infinite strata of it was as if from there love was pouring into my heart and love was pouring into my body and and it really made me realize in a visceral way like hey this thing that you've been spending an awful lot of time and energy uh trying to get from other people and and you know in which I would like most of us kind of contort myself in ways uh to ensure that I got that was was just sitting right there and and and I and God what a you know that's a a wonderful weight off that that's that's you know a wonderful Freedom not to have to you know chase around for it and not to have to have any sense that you need to uh change yourself into what you think is somebody else's cup of tea and you know put yourself into a some sort of you know unnatural stilted form like having that there well it it's kind of obvious that that's wonderful uh but but that that was a a big impact yeah did that happen at the same time like your uh new meditation or was it something later or earlier oh you all again yeah again it's kind of like yo-yoing so so you know you know but but thank thankfully uh yeah there wasn't that much of a leg for me some for for some people there's there can be a bit more of a lag in which they might uh be having these really very interesting experiences of of of things like you know oh the silent mind or or the Witness or or experiencing this this deep infinite kind of witness uh at the bottom of their Consciousness and yet it might not necessarily translate into into into sort of the the the structure of their emotional body or or into sort of psychological healing or in in my case that there was a pretty quick of pretty quick quick translation of maybe because I was very young and and I think had in relative terms I think a fairly easy life life I don't know why that there could be many reasons that are that are beyond my knowing but I have no idea no idea uh but um but yeah that that was that was fairly quick and of course but of course it has to stick and so it's very easy for even even with those initial experiences to still be you know grasping quite a bit it's a very old habit to try that that most of us have where we're sort of trying to control our reality where where we're you know we we might have where where we kind of want to hold on to uh you know sort of being um sort of a successful um little separate person and so so many different habits and and so you know that that's there's it's it's almost inevitable for for most people to kind of continue to um put their put their hand on the hot stove of of of suffering uh you know more times most of us don't don't get the memo one as like completely rewire and and change all their habits and and turn on a dime so so of course

yeah yeah well this wholeness or this Stillness of presence it's always here it's this very sense of being or very sense of aliveness yeah that is just so natural and so 
present all the time that it's not

noticed yeah completely I and in my case it's also very similar to um a lot of people that I've known is we sort of dip into that wholeness and then re realize wait a second you know this was something that when I was 3 years old or 9 years old or a few months back that that I have been dipping into at different points without really knowing the what I was dipping into the whole time you know that that this this kind of wholeness has been you know staring me in the face you know forever that it's been in all the little cracks of reality that it's been sort of underneath all of my previous you know flailing

about that that that it's it's that's that's an amazing sort of thing that that's that to to have that sense of my God you know this whole time really you know really wow sometime and it changes memory too um which which I've always found is interesting it doesn't edit the memories but it adds another dimension it's almost like um like what happens in with people in your death experiences of self-included is that you you'll have the memory of of an event and it would seem that you have it in fuller detail but and then there's also a perspectival change in the memory like like remembering the the events of your own little life but there's now noticeably a background of this sort of infinite wholeness that's holding the scene and filling and filling up the characters and and and is often sort of the main um constituent feel of the memory how interesting and that's fascinating yeah when when I was a um sort of like semic cled monk type in those years of so so really still kind of like very much in a practice practice [ __ ] up practice [ __ ] up kind of kind of place of a lot of these things also came to me in the dream state it was kind of like the dream state um was was an easy one for wholeness to sort of slip into so I I remember having these dreams u in which I was I was very clearly every character in the dream and all the spa and the space in between all the characters and and experiencing everything everything simultaneously and I would wake up from these dreams and and for sometimes for a few hours in in my normal interactions with with my friends uh that would persist and and there and and and that was really a nice way to go because it takes the edge off and you know and and so that that was lovely but it's like that wholeness has will will slip in wherever it can wherever it needs to where I think like water it'll it'll find the exploit the cracks uh you get get through

yeah I want to touch something there AR people that are seeking this or looking for it and yes it's so here it's so visible when you have eyes to see it but sometimes I find that there is a blockage so thick so strong that says no matter what you do no matter how long you're going to look no matter how many years you're going to

try this is just going to prove that you're not going to get it

like this natural state is here but there is a program running some kind of crazy program running that no matter how long and what whatever I do it's not going to happen for me any kind of self reinforces for years yeah o o it's so painful yeah that's a rough one I know

yeah it's like okay there is no hope I'm going to keep seeking I'm going to keep trying I'm going to do therapy I'm going to go to teachers or gurus with this block that it will never happen and it will prove me again and again again that it cannot happen for me yeah yeah right yeah and it's just such a little tiny uh unimpressive program yet yeah it seems that's one that has a lot of a lot of sort of um very similarly wired programs I yeah absolutely uh

I I I definitely I definitely got to experience some versions of that one that that's that's for sure I'm sort of just remembering back now on on what my um my 18 17 18 19 20 year old nervous system could could feel like at times I I think in in my case it was very very helpful to that I had a practice that uh I think profoundly affected my physical body as well in in the sense that uh my body would would be in a very deeply relaxed State frequently and and so in my case it was like I had this sort of very seemingly more objective receip that that kind of contradicted whatever whatever might be floating up um in the headp space it it couldn't deny like well that body is sure enjoying what's what's you know what's going on it seems to be um uh releasing its tensions but of course then even then you know that sometimes that you know the mind is strong enough our belief in the mind is and and all the thoughts that are produced therein is strong enough uh to to to reject that in that case it's just really nice to be sort of to have some kind of crazy persistence as well I mean I I think that's that's a profound one of the most important virtues uh in in this sort of game of of finding the the one thing that's hidden in plain sight is is to just you know keep at it I I think it is helpful though I wouldn't want to keep at it in like a there are smarter ways of keeping at it we we'll put it that way so it is good to you know if if there are certain things that you know are are sort of objective signs that that you're heading in the right direction I think it's intelligent to to to um organize life and organize a spiritual path around that you know so so there's there's that um so if every now and then of uh I was blessed I might might have had a few periods have periods where it seemed like nothing much was happening and maybe I should give up this whatever I'm doing and go back to Wisconsin or something and you know cuz because obviously this whole spiritual path thing is probably not for me these should be thoughts that come up periodically and then you know just as soon as I would have those you know maybe a day later or a few days later uh an experience would come up where that was to me was almost undeniable that there was some progress happening and and usually it would be something like uh something happening out in every in the everyday World situation would come up that that normally would completely frazzle me and and then there there would be no reaction to it and I'd be like what you know hey what you I remember one time I you know I was actually being told by by by um a fellow monk at at our ashram you know the thing I I least wanted to hear and I was afraid of hearing and he took me aside and said like you know I think you don't belong here you know let's face it you're not doing very well at all you kind of suck at this you know you need to go and and actually I think he meant it to which is probably oh yes absolutely he for whatever reason he wanted me out um that was but to my surprise and and to his surprise you know when when he's saying those things to me I was I mean I was fully expecting pretty soon my heart's going to start going I'm going to be like my muscles are going to tighten I'm going to be in some kind of um you know fight response here or something and and then nothing and and I'm just and I was just completely bewildered uh you know that that there would be no reaction to this and and instead of no reaction it was also this kind of sense of Joy at at I mean that was bizarre I mean that was absolutely bizar and and and he saw that with to his credit you know he's like oh you oh maybe you should stay you know like kind of hilarious uh nice story as well yeah and you know basically at that time I was having all those thoughts like well I'm gone I've been going hard at this for a while I'm getting nowhere I I'm I'm awful at this compared to all the people around me um yeah let's throw in the how they're going to find out I'm a fraud soon you know and and they're going to fire me you can get fired from a you place where you're not really making any money anyways but yeah yeah so so like like things like that I mean would would come in sometimes the the dry spell would be longer but thank God for dumb dumb persistence in that case yes I love that you mentioned persistence because that is something that keeps that hand going while this one is saying you can't so keeps going yeah I mean the habits Run Deep I mean they they really can and and so I mean I some people like hate to hear this actually because it's like tell me it's just like completely easy you know and yeah there's a certain level where it's kind of no you kind of have to you know remove the Thorns from the hand with h you know with with the other Thorn take him out and and be persistent about it and it's and with that persistence at some point then you know what was once 50 thorns in the hand is now maybe two and that's and and great it's like a whole Hedgehog yeah like a whole Hedgehog that that's that's right Ilona like our our our our sort of tendency to be identified as separate egos is like when when you know dogs chase uh porcupines and get get the quills in their face um I don't

yeah

basically yeah yeah it's just important to notice the programs that are in the way because otherwise we can be striving somebody can be striving for to find the wholeness to find yeah Natural State but if there is something in the way unless it's addressed it will still be there yeah that Thorn yeah that thorn will still be there

yeah oh well something I'm grateful for on on the uh topic of thorn removal is is that when I started my my instincts and and basically what what I had maybe read up to that point or ingested of you know did make the thorn removal process sound like such a difficult thing that why even bother why even bother undertaking this craziness what you know you read different different like especially the old western esoteric or cult literature which was very psychologically oriented would be like well you know you're your these sort of unconscious blocks they're so cunning that you have to be more cunning and and you will have to face the the the quote dwellers on the 

threshold um and you all this stuff and I'd be like well if I'm really honest with myself I don't think I'm going to be able to to to quite quite do that uh and I was I you know I was extremely grateful that that a lot of this stuff actually just sort of falls off that that there there isn't some sort of really isn't some sort of like 
cunning um bad actor in there uh who's who's fighting tooth and nail that that's really more if we when we start to touch presence even even one profound um immersion into silence or presence of could have have dozens of Things fall off and some some people's biographies are kind of like that they'll have a profound peak experience which to me the the core of a peak experience is is in most cases probably samadhi probably some sort of you know immersion into presence and maybe they they might think they've only they just report one Peak experience but it changed their whole life and and and the whole life you know went in a completely different easier uh direction and and so sometimes I you know I I was really grateful to even even like one of my first meditation classes uh as a student I I I went this this is where I found presence and and the thing that really told me that something interesting had gone on wasn't all the great maybe internal experiences but when I I got home the next day and and woke up in the in the morning of I I was having a conversation with my dad and then and then he started saying something I don't even remember what it was but he started saying something that in those days as kind of a reactive somewhat reactive teenager um usually would have caused caused pushed a button in me and then of course there there's no button and and and then I'm like and then he looks at me like he's noticing the button didn't get pushed so then he goes again and then it's not there and and and we were we were completely surprised that you know in 3 days this this thing I wish I remembered was um this or the phrase this this U sort of line of questioning that usually pissed me off um didn't do anything and uh not like I needed his validation at all but but it it was very also very funny from then my dad to say like well whatever meditation you're doing now it it seems to be good or something like that so so yeah yeah it's it's like I didn't do anything to have I didn't do anything at all I didn't there didn't do I didn't go around with a wrench inside the psyche and and you know unbolt things and and jettison things in with any kind of conscious agency of all I had to do was was just engage in a in a practice that that put my whole being into into presence and and from doing that repeatedly it's like all of these things were were sort of jettison like it's there's this wonderful Capital I intelligence that if we can all we have to do is Maybe we don't have to meet it halfway we we have to maybe meet it one 10th of the way you know by by maybe that one 10th is is is is really big seems really big but yeah we have to meet at one tenth of the way with persistence and and intelligence and and and devotion and dedication and then nine 10ths comes back and which which I I found incredible and so thankful for that because the idea of trying to fix yourself um is exhausting I mean it's absolutely absolutely you know fix yourself from the perspective of the broken self or whatever I mean that's kind of a mind [ __ ] too uh you know that and that's what my days as sort of a self-help were kind of based and um not that I'm criticizing actually selfhelp in in in general in truth but you know there was um a lot of that instead it was more instead of trying to sort of fix a broken self from the broken self it was fall into wholeness and have wholeness communicate itself to

itself oh it's so wonderful and it's it's like whoa yeah I mean my God I remember like crying buckets of Tears of Joy you know it wasn't a crier either you know but but it's like w what what what what a relief um you know and that came from the relief actually of of having the sense that wait I don't have to I don't have to fix myself you know whoo that that was yeah that that was you know a huge sort of thing yeah uh and yeah that's I noticed that there's both things going on there's a cosmic washing machine and there's also an intelligent silent Hoover yeah that's right that's right yeah yeah absolutely and ain't that grand yeah yeah yeah some stuff that there just being hoovered by that silence or by that presence that comes in and it leaves without any saying bye-bye or not even consciously just drop one of my favorite one of my favorite definitions for for Brahman is the Eater of everything for for that very reason you know it's it's like it is it is hoovering everything up hoovering up yeah you don't need that anymore let's take that away no yeah but at the same time there are these things these sticky stories and stuff that actually do need to be heard, validated of course healed yeah that's the that's the healing part yeah yeah well that's and that's that's the wonderful thing that that the play is divine it's it's it's not a BS play you know it's it's a it's a Divine Play and being a Divine Play It's there's kind of a sense of all of these things needing and wanting to happen you know 

and that can be a bit of a uh I suppose for some people it feels like a paradox um so it is so it is yeah I I remember uh God I think I something it was a combination of a relationship breakup and food poisoning which you don't necessar want together a nice Sandwitch like boom at the same time so in other words I ended up I ended up on top of a toilet you know on top of it with all the emotions in there as well and that was one of those sort of Grace filled moments where where you know engaged in that I was is also sort of doing my you know very lightly doing my mantric practice not as a way to sort of stop the feelings but as a way to keep me as loose and open as possible to to you know be able to feel the whole damn thing you know without running away and then I I you know kind of kept going and and it would have been my habit at the time to want to sort of sort of not feel a lot of that and to run from it and then I remember you know being with the I don't want to make this too graphic for the audience screamish while while this was was happening um then you know relaxing to such an extent that oh my God this is great you know this is this is this is perfect this toilet bowl that I'm looking at you you know right now the these these feelings this all of it was was just just perfect exactly there and to the extent that there was a sense that uh wasn't a new sense but again you know have to we have to get the same lesson over and over and over again is it it's like a memo that has to you know filtrate its way through all these little layers and reach everything was like oh yeah that's right of you know this this one wholeness is is is the thing that's behind all of this and it's it's it's kind of orchestrating all these events 

for its joy in some sense or for no reason at all that that the human mind can comprehend at

least oh oh yeah that's

right

yeah yeah just giving space a little bit for that silence to come in Hoover was no longer needed

here we go done finished

next yeah it's quick

yeah I'm I'm I'm reminded and don't know if I talked about this the last time whatever I'm I'm reminded of one moment where where I I came in uh again it was it was back in the the old um ashram days but I I came in and one of our our sort of main teachers was there it was a very a very whole being uh and and she was there I even remember the quality of light coming through the windows the people who are in the scene and and I just and in one crystalline moment again just the moment the now that has to come over and over again that we have to fall into I I slipped into it very profoundly I was like wait a second um this this thing that that you know I've been going toward in and out of it's it's already awake there there there's and and for some reason that that struck me because I think I had this subtle idea even though intellectually I kind of I knew that of course intellectually but I had this sort of others more more subtle notion that somehow again that that I had to do something to to sort of make it more awake or I had to do I had to do something you know to somehow that that the little i could do something to expand that the thing in in and of itself which is a sort of a ridiculous notion when you say it out like that philosophically but it's not a ridiculous notion of the unconscious which you know sort of smuggles its biases and of course like like a lot of people came from um sort of a no pain no gain kind of culture where where it's like hard work hard work hard work in all ways that that's how you have to have to get you know move move through life and I realized oh my god I've been smuggling this this that hard work notion into into even even this thing that that feels quite infinite to me how can you make it work and was such a another another profound relief uh to have to be experientially realizing wait a second it's actually just been it's been it's like a giant you know million voltage light bulb it's like a sun that's that's been shining equally the whole time it's just kind of uh my my perception which has been modulating in and out of of of that space for some reason that was an entirely holy moment of in in this life and and and in touching that I I realized wait a sec it was another one of those moments where you fall into the now and then you realize that same now has been has been basically in every single moment of your own existence and so there's this this kind of like I went under the surface of my timeline and was sitting in a place that could that was embracing the entire life and was like oh my God that sun has been shining as as as full everywhere oh my God what Crazy how how how crazy I've been right how how how how silly it's been for me to sort of think

otherwise yeah it's like sun is here I am here there's a shadow yeah right Shadows moving oh how interesting what is it doing let's chase shadow but then sudden it's like wow yeah there's the sun

yeah yeah so it's kind of what like it's a profound game of um hide-and seek yeah so we are hiding from ourselves yeah it seems so for the fun of it yeah and for the pain of it yeah it might be an off take perhaps but I I kind of think that at a certain level I I get the sense that at a certain level pain is great fun for hor movies yeah hor movies yeah yeah I I I remember I had a had a kidney stone and and that was it was a really bad one too so um and I didn't know it was a kitty since went went to the hospital uh you know see what is this you know uh and and and that was an interesting experience mostly the experience of life was ow just continuously but um uh there you know in between the ow underneath the ow um there was a sense of this aspect of the Divine that that's that's kind of like isn't this wonderful you know isn't this great isn't this Grand you know almost to me sort of this this some giant mirthful laughter not of course in derision but out of out of Joy it's like okay yeah thank thank you for

that yeah

and speaking of wholeness I mean like that wholeness it moves and it spreads which which iswhich is which is a wonderful thing what I mean by that is that uh yeah we we we we might find it for instance we to start in into our very very deep meditations which is wonderful and then we come out of those meditations and maybe we have this kind of a bliss battery or a presence battery that that kind of Might dwindle down yeah yeah during the day and then things get a little bit ragged and and then you know go back into meditation fill up again or something like that but I you know as long as you kind of persist in that at some point um that wholeness is is like it seems as if it's almost actively trying to find us too in a way and and it starts to pop up you know in in the peripheral vision and then it's then it's almost as if it's it's staring at us from our own hands and it's starts to creep into us you know in the guise of other people and and that's that's sort of a a wonderful stage as well and and a Wonder wonderful phenomena uh yeah and it's kind of I I think uh Rumi was really sitting in that spot quite a bit in in his

poetry definitely feel yoga paramahansa Yogananda in his writings sitting very firmly in that spot of of the heart and the body itself opening up to the the cosmic beloved and the cosmic beloved is is really none other than the the infinite with a with a very very subtle form or the infinite presence working through the forms of the world and and enlivening them and that's that's a a a wonderful thing as well and not not really a distraction if it if it's based in presence itself it's it's a almost a necessary part for some people of of their journey and and I've known some people who are actually afraid got afraid or nervous when they're having certain experiences that you know that were of that they like am I am I having an LSD flashback here um is this psychosis is this this is this that typically none of the above it's it's natural for for some of us to uh touch a chair or look at a chair and and have us it's whoa wait a second you know that that's that's not just a bunch of dead tree molecules with with varnish on top of it that that is something something bottomless and and and and vast hiding in in a little

form okay so what would be your invitation today for people who are watching

um if I was going with a theme of the conversation um it would be that if if you have if you have a a practice or a sadhana that you you you have the receipts that it works that you you have only it only takes maybe one or two you don't need to have a bunch because sometimes we do forget but if if if if you know what you're doing is is is pretty solid then then me my invitation is uh to be very very persistent with it and and that it's that's well well worth it to you know you don't have to necessarily you don't have to kill yourself um you know Zeal Zeal and enthusiasm I think are wonderful but we don't have to be manufacturing it all the time we don't have to be doing everything dialed up to an 11 but if if you dialed well up to about an eight and Steady As She Goes that that's that's my invitation dumb dumb persistence

and yeah my invitation would be to look at okay there is wholeness you can know that from videos from other people talking and it's just something that is being looked for but then before that can be found there are these little programs they're not allow they just some sentences that keep repeating in the mind and they are obstructing The View so find those sentence look at that look really close because they are playing in the mind every day all day long like for example I'm not good enough I will never get this or this is something for other people or I cannot have that all these little programs they are just pathetic unimpressive little rubbish that is just flying inside the chamber Echo chamber of the mind and once they are spotted poof they can be gone and here they are yeah and and our compliment or I add to that um is that you know as as problematic as as they are and and and as rubbish as they are we we don't have to we don't have to beat them with a rubber mallet you know we don't have to hit them in the hammer it's it's it's there's there's actually kind of in a sense there could be no enemy it's possible to have no enemy in this on this path and and I I think a lot of um those programs are are kind of like just very very stubborn defense mechanisms or or they're emanating from very sort of stubborn psychological defense mechanisms and a lot of those defense mechanisms are just like um places that need more love Yeah and and and so when when we when we find something that and love really love love and and presence or love in samadhi or love they're fairly tantamount they're bundled together love is like the of one of the easy outgrowths of samadhi into into Human Experience Ananda you know the the the Bliss aspect and and when you know when we then those bits of psychological

tension that are are touching that space they start to ah you know kind of unclench sometimes they're very stubborn right so we have to that's why we have to be persistent and but eventually they're like oh wait a second oh that's okay no problem and and and and and so there they are and and then when when the similar thought comes up you know at at some other point if it ever does it it has no weight it has no more magic cause it it's it's its root has been sort of dissolved and and let go of and and gone and I sometimes I think of those bits of the psyche kind of like like shelter dogs you know who've been hurt and and so when you you adopt a shelter dog you know first they might not like people because they they've had very bad experiences yeah and and just you have to come and bring it love you know put the food there leave the room so it feels safe and can can eat then maybe the next time you bring the food dish in you can be in the room when it's eating then maybe the next time you you come and it it might even um walk up to you very calmly and then the next time it might even lick your hand and and so and I think our insides are very very similar to that so if if if as those insides get exposed to that great Central Central Sun of warmth and love then the transformation is much much easier yeah thank you for that

it's great to talk to you again yeah and this hour again is finished yeah yeah it's funny it's great it's a pleasure thank you and thank you everyone for watching and listening and leave a comment get in touch with Ishtar I'll leave the details in the

description and see you next time bye for now see you later Ilona