Explore the illusion of self with insights from our February Zoom meeting.

You may understand the illusion of self but have never had an experience. How do you see this? Let's explore the question of a separate self together. This episode is a recording of a zoom meeting that was held in February.
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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 84 Understanding vs Experience: The Self Illusion Explained.

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are interested in all things awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life. Whether you’re a seeker, a teacher, or simply curious, there’s something here for you.

You may understand the illusion of self but have never had an experience.  . How to see this? Let's explore the question of a separate self together. This episode is a recording of a zoom meeting that was held in February. you are welcome to join the next meeting on the third Thursday of the month. 

intellectually I get there's no separate self I look I can't find it but as you say I don't have that direct

experience very good this is actually very very common question intellectual understanding is something that the Mind understands based on other people's descriptions and experiences the seeing it would be what you see and you can describe in your own words from your own experience that's the difference so if you are saying that you don't have that experience but you understand it well how would you define it that no self in your experience by looking at what's happening in your experience what does it look like well for me the no I mean I've looked to find a that supposed non-existent self and I can't find it and it's not in my head it's not in my body it's not floating around so I can't I can't find that self but not finding it is not sufficient to have the experience that it doesn't exist you know what I'm saying yes perfectly clear yes it's not enough because when you are looking there is an assumption that there is something to find and there is some vague idea what it would look like yes right but but right let's go to like uh the very basic very very simple thing this Santa Claus example okay so when when a little kid believes that there is s and parents tell him that there's Santa and brings presence some magical creature lives up North and then one day he finds out that there never was any Santa it was just a guy or dad or some neighbor or somebody dressed in a costume and that plays Santa that appears as Santa now that understanding or that realization for the little kid it's literally a drop of a belief he was believing in some magical creature and then he wasn't anymore did he need to go to look for S to know

that don't no why

not with regard to Santa I think what would happen for the kid is he would discover his his uncle or discover his parents or he would have some experience that would tell him there's no Santa I I don't know I think that if his friends said hey Santa Claus doesn't exist that wouldn't be sufficient well for me that was L I don't know maybe if enough friends told him that it would be sufficient again I don't know do not know right but he once once the recognition happens it's literally a drop of belief in magical creature un recognizing that there never was anything to even look

for like to recognize that Santa is not real he did not need to go to the North Pole to look for

it he recognized there was an ankle there was a neighbor or something he recognized the reality the fictional self the fictional selfish just like this

Center so yes we can go and look for it and we we can all find it but that is not enough because the answer is that there's nothing even to look for it's kind of on a different level there's nothing to look for

so now when we are looking for an absence of something absence of something anything how do you see an absence of

something let's say here's a cup okay

cup there an absence of a cup

I don't see the absence of a

cup you I saw the cup before and you put it down so it's no longer visible in the

screen but I can't the fact that I can't see the cup in the screen doesn't imply that the cup doesn't exist

yes that's true but do you see an absence of it no I well I can't see an absence of it how do you see an absence of something exactly so when we are looking for this no self it's like looking for an absence of something you can't see an absence of something

you can't see an absence of a self because the self like Santa is already imagined even even further so it's literally looking for something that doesn't exist and you cannot find it because there's nothing even to look for that's the that's the twist in the story

so we can see what what is here what is showing up in in perception you can see

that through the perception channels we can also see or know of emotions thoughts and

images we know I know that there is something existing there's existing something is yes something is I am being is presence is here now is

that's
it can't see something that

isn't because if I ask you now George if I ask you now how do you know that there is the separate self what's the evidence that there is that there is something to find something to even look

for that's a great question and my first answer would be well I have a feeling that there's a separate self but that's not a good answer because then you'd ask me what is that feeling so again let me give you another answer um I have the experience I call it an experience of me here and you there I have the experience that I can do things that I can make choices I mean even though intellectually I know that's not quite true but it seems that I can make choices um it seems that I'm separate I can leave the room and you'll still be there so that's my evidence of a separate self okay the next question would be the separate self what is it separate

from because we we hear the separate self separate self what is this actually separate from okay the separate self that I feel is here is it's separate from you it's separate from the rest of the world I'm looking at my computer and there's my computer over there but there's a separate self over here where okay good question everything is here every the computer is here this talking head is here this group is here this body is here everything is

here yes I can get that intellectually it's all it's all here in my perception right so I can understand that intellectually okay now let's look not intellectually because intellectually as I said before is something that you learned from somebody else experientially describe what you

see well I see

colors and uh I interpret those colors as physical objects so I see this rectangle in front of me that's black and I interpret that as my screen and then I see an image some images on the screen and I interpret one of those images of as being you and these other people I can see them on my screen also right are they this whatever colors and people are outside of here and now are they separate from here and now from your perception that is happening right here right now no they are not they are here and now right only intellectually is there a past and a future they are all here now so let's say like this experientially everything is here now yes intellectually there is somebody here separate from

something yes kind of opposite experientially everything's here now intellectually there's oh there's something missing there's

separateness there's there right now there are there are things existing right now yes but among the things that seem to be existing right now is a separate self so right I I can't really see it because there's nothing to see it's just an

idea so experientially it's always been this idea says oh there is a separate self somehow I need to see through it I need to get rid of it I need to connect I need this I need that that's the intellectual part the experiential part that everything's here everything's happening in the presence right now there's nothing separate from right now

right the power of the mind is override experience through and put it into some kind of uh concept the power of mind is to deny the experience while looking through some

belief yes but I need that power of mind for example I see these colors and I need the power of mind to interpret those colors as people images of people yes I need the mind I need the mind to make that interpretation yes so I mean the raw experience is sort of not sufficient I have to I have to live in some kind of some kind of interpretation okay I agree but what about just born babies just born babies they don't have language they still see the colors they still have experiences there's still life going on there is no language there's no interpretation but they cry and laugh and eat and poop and do other

things yes I understand that I also seem to get that for them there's no separate self okay right they they don't feel separate or even of separate or know of self because there is no language there right they may not even know where their body is or that they have a body

yes but I wouldn't exist very long if I regress back to that

state we don't need to but we can recognize that the language the overlay of language that is defining this is a lamp this is a computer this is a head this is a hand that is separating objects by naming them while everything is already whole unified and there is no separateness in experience like colors are not separate they all colors perception of colors is not separating color black from White white or blue and red it's all one visual field like that computer screen now there are so many colors on the computer screen the colors are not separate they Define The Edge they Define the form we look at this okay microphone oh that's flamp or that's a plant just naming parts of the hole and putting labels onto them and then that label becomes a separate

thing but everything's here now already nothing is separate from here now nothing is separate from awareness or knowing of

it even labeling is part of it

so if not the mind saying that there is something wrong here there is nothing wrong there's nothing else but

is I hate to say this but I have the experience that it's hopeless for me I I just

what you say is not

new it doesn't seem to have the I mean I love doesn't seem to have the impact right and what would need to change here's the mind coming yeah maybe nothing needs to change it's just recognizing what is obvious what has always been here and it's always been the same

yes so you're suggesting I think as a

technique just to be aware of the

present without any without anything added is that

right it's not a technique it's recogniz izing the experiencing and overlay of Concepts that it's not the same that there is this direct perceiving going on plus labeling going on and that labeling is separating what is being perceived into separate things just by labeling it and seeing that is one big

step like you know okay what is this what is

this well I would call that a cup ahuh yes now if I say okay here's here's a cup in my hand do you know how the cup looks like it's like this and I can drink tea there's nothing there because we are talking now not about this but about a concept and that Concept in itself has got no weight no color no nothing you can't even see see an absence of a cup because what we're talking about is just an idea of a cup can't drink tea of idea of a cup but that's what happened with a with a separate self the idea of a self can and talk about it 100 times thousand times still it doesn't become anything because there's nothing there it's a concept the actuality is so much richer and Fuller and everything's going on here and that's the experience but what I understand about the cup but what I understand about self and self can never reach that can never Define it because we forget that it's just an idea like like Santa Claus is an

idea it's nothing that you know you can't find it you don't even need to look for it and nothing changes if you see it or not nothing changes in reality an actual experience

with regard to Santa

Claus at the time that a child believes in Santa Claus and he goes to the mall or somebody someplace and he sees this person in a Santa Claus outfit yeah and he says oh strange why is Santa Claus here in this mall but he sees you know he he interprets that person in a red suit as Santa Claus because that's what he has been told person in red suit with beard Santa Claus and I don't know how to break that illusion unless he went into the men's room with Santa Claus and Santa Claus took off his suit or something I don't [Laughter] know okay but we can recognize that idea of a santa like a car Santa somebody's being dressed up as a Santa and the kid says that's Santa Claus another kid will say yeah the Santa is magical creature he lives up north and one night a year brings presence to good kids that believe in that magical creature is that is no longer than that first kid who can still see Santa Claus but no that it's not the magical thing it's nothing that just a

show see I can see a guy dressed in red and I say that Santa Claus I don't have that belief that this is like some magical woo woo out of reality Supernatural

thing so that belief drops Santa Remains the idea of Santa remains Christmas remains everything remains as always so now in this seeking seeking to recognize through the self or through the seeing the illusion of the self it's like right I heard somewhere somewhere that the ey doesn't exist or that there is no you or that there is no self that's the idea and that's what brings up all the search to find out the truth of it the truth is there is nothing there to find what we have is the actual experience the reality unified there's nobody no magical creature there running the

show The Show Goes On there's nobody running it

and no matter how long you can look for it or where you're going to look for it there's nothing to find at some point you have to keep up like okay what's here rather than what's not here how can I see something that doesn't exist how can I see an absence of something that doesn't exist it's okay what's here

okay I I need I notic there are two other people with their hands up so hi okay let me let me defer defer to you or then okay well thank you George that was a great question because it's so many people are in the same situation well thank you but I still feel this frustration that I still don't get it you know I still have not dropped that illusion but okay it may take me a while okay yeah can we can agree with that it drops when it

drops thank you welcome thank you right I have Ali and dog Ali was first please Ali com in okay so my question well one of my question was would you say that uh the dropping of the illusion of self is quite highly correlated with uh the reduction or the dropping of thought um the particular thought yes no not a particular generally thinking you know thinking no so even if somebody is continu L thinking the illusion of self can drop right okay the way I see it is that the illusion of self is the illusion that there is a door there's somebody here inside the body inside the system making things happening doing things seeing through is seeing that there's nothing there don't even need to look for it you know that there is nothing there everything is Flowing freely everything including colors Sound Sensations thoughts and images and emotions everything is Flowing

freely yeah I understand that yes but so it doesn't mean that when you see that everything is Flowing freely some part of it is going to switch

off in actual life in actual practice yes yeah so there are two things going on there're seeing that there's nobody doing anything that everything is Flowing freely and another thing is to reduce the noise the noise is all these patterns that are no longer serving and they want to be released they want to go home but they need your attention that's why they keep calling the noise that's what reduces the thinking when that noise is

attended in fact if you see that there is no self the thought processes can even get higher and bigger and grander and can't even sleep anymore because there is so much going on because the belief system has been challenged so much that everything has to be rebuilt the structure has to be

rebuilt but then there are moments of Silence

moments that may last a minute two minutes half an hour three months I don't know but there is this a silence that opens up and then it's going back to the noise because the noise is still here and then there is more silence then there is more noise more silence more noise and through that waving flip floppy the noise is getting

reduced but it's not like I see that everything is happening by itself that means the thought process is going to end

somehow [Music]

or so in general if a person has the self has dropped off the illusion of self has dropped off then would you say that is more likely then the person has a lot of Silence in the mind and relatively fewer not no thinking there will be periods of a lot of thought but generally compared to what the person was previously or what other people usually are the person will have fewer thoughts and sometimes a lot of noise as you say it's relearning certain things and whatever yeah yes yes yes and it's all unique yeah yeah so if silence is here it's wonderful but the noise still needs to be attended

absolutely kind of see that there is this this flow of experiencing is not my doing it's not something that I am

controlling it gives a little bit more space to look at what's arising with let's say maybe less resistance or less holding on they're still holding on but maybe it's a little bit less so it gives a little bit more space to look at stuff

yeah and there can also be like U big experiences of Silence Stillness zadi Bliss that's not excluded it can happen doesn't have to for everyone doesn't have for

everyone but if that's here it's great it's not here it's great it doesn't matter how it is what is it's how is here that's that's

it and really seeing through this illusion is just a tiny First Step it's an

opening a

bikini yeah and then the silence increases and the the thoughts become more meaningful so the thought is related to something actual not just talking to

oneself can be and it can happen in maybe 10 years I it doesn't matter doesn't matter once the opening happens it happens the rest is just unfolding

like if the mind is not silent all the time it doesn't mean that you don't see that there is no separate

self but maybe to the extent that your mind is chattering you think of the no separate self as a kind of a an intellectual idea to the extent that your mind has quietened down you see the no separate self as a reality because it is actually the thought the thoughts that Define you as separate yes yes

yes and in the moment of seeing the mind

is

yeah okay thank you thank you thank

you hey Doug

please uh can you unmute your microphone I can not hear you thank you about that yeah are um I wanted to uh ask you a question about uh if this is sort of a portal into um no self uh when I go to bed at night um I listen to some relaxing music to help me fall asleep and when I do it I use earbuds and when I use earbuds um and I close my eyes there's just

it feels like like on one level I could say the music's originating internally it's not like there's a speaker over there and I hear it on the other side of the room but it's all internal the music and I can't find a separation and I can't find a listener and a sound it's just one thing happening and um and I'm curious if this is um more or less I mean that I can't find a self there when you are having that experience right it's it's like an experience where yes there's just there's just music yeah and you know of that music there's just hearing what's that and you are hearing you know of that music you are here yes yes you you can't find a separate self or you can't find the listener because you are

it yeah there's just there's just listening happening

yeah and then where I get a little bit little bit because so so so for several minutes it could just be this open listening without feeling any sense of being sep SE from the sound or or anything but then thoughts will pop up and maybe for a minute or so I'm off on a I'm hearing the music but then there's like some thoughts going on and then there'll be a thought oh I'm want to go back to just listening and that's where it almost feels like there's a s there's a self that makes a choice to go back to listening yeah

it seems like that's true seems like yeah but is that self a voice in a head or is that self a

thought it's it's a subtle thought that says well it says if you want to fall asleep you got to go back to listening to this tape right so how do you experience that

as a thought as a thought yes yeah right well I was just saying a little bit earlier that you are here you are here not as a thought not not as an image not as a body not as an emotion or color sound you are here as this a space as nowness being like you know you're here and it's so simple to see that it's so obvious and it's always on right yeah like for example do you see my hand do you see my hand yes you see my hand do you know that you see my hand yes that's

it so you are here the music is here right music flows freely there is listening there's no thought and then a thought is here a thought comes in it's another experience you are here the thought comes in and

goes so the thought is claiming to be a self it's not a self it's not doing anything it's just passing

by yes it's for me it's very interesting how in the narrative the self is being credited with just anything doing hearing listening talking the self which is just an idea there's nothing there is being credited with all the action with all the doing

for me it looks like this if you watch the cartoon and there is a cartoon character here and cartoon character here and they interacting and talking then you say yeah that cartoon character told something to that cartoon character that Mickey Mouse told something to the

cat but the Mickey Mouse cannot

talk and it seems like it it appears as if and we take into that and we play with that but that little drawing is not talking there's nothing there to talk so the self that is doing something or it comes in and says something it's just like that cartoon

character yeah you

here seeing the show watching the show being present so everything can show

up it's it's just um I mean awareness is here that and it's it's sort of there's not really a distinction between awareness and what's arising it's almost like an UNF just like a holistic unfolding

that's what it feels like

yeah yeah and it's same way like you cannot separate waves from the ocean what would be a wave without the

ocean the ocean can be without waves and with waves it's the same ocean but the wave cannot be without the ocean

so experience cannot be without

you yeah and and same thing you know at when I fall into deep sleep at night um the world disappears and I seem to disappear and then wake up in the morning and and gradually it all reappears again problems come back the hopes come back the the room reappears but for the period where I'm in deep Sleep there's just it's it's like a little vacation from all that but there's not there's no one sleep there's my experience is there's no one sleeping there's just there's just non-experienced

if that makes sense yeah the experience without content or experiencing

nothing I know language it's so funny you know you can wrap it up in different words and it has such a different meaning like there's no experience of there is experience of

nothing the being is there is no experience

mm there's experience of

nothing feels so good though sleep deep sleep it does yeah thank you welcome thank you

I wanted to keep going with this um looking just to get clear or whatever but

um you said the beginning the recognition is the beginning and a very loud question just come up like beginning of

what cuz I'm still um what keeps coming up is that question of I guess it's that belief that's something meaningful in a shift something tangible that you can go before and after this gradual gradual disappearing and the going in and out and in and out it's just so disappointing okay but it's the beginning of that going in and in and out yeah CU before wasn't in and out it was just up oh so it's a beginning of going in and out so is

there a moment

where God I feel like I've asked this question before you know just like a shift like something you know like you hear people say oh I got it you know like that like does that happen it's just going to be like okay you know gradual like is is there a moment of like where you're the way you see yourself or the self completely changes and you can never be taken by the thought

ey yes but that

moment may be missed may not be so visible like a har moment or fireworks like if you if you really look at this it's a drop of a belief how a belief drops it's believed it's reinforced by evidence there is something there that is saying ahuh this is how it is this is how it is I know that because this is showing up and then suddenly doesn't add up somehow anymore would you call this a shift yes because something no longer makes

sense and then there is a beginning of seeing everything differently yes but then everything needs to be looked at to see this differently and that's the beginning of exploring the end the end of seeking is the end of

desperation of that Curiosity or that movement to find out to understand or know what's going on but seeking is desperate it's like I'm missing something somebody else got it I don't have it I'm desperate I want it I want something that they have right the shift is that desperation is no longer there the exploration is continuous continuous and it's kind of H curious interesting maybe even joyful not always but it's not looking for something out there anymore it's knowing where to explore

and going in and out is just part of the unfolding part of the process in in contraction out into expansion and silence and being and

just and then back into the noise so the more noise can resolve and be like ah openness again so it's the beginning of that harmonica to

play and it may have started maybe even years

ago that's actually what I was wondering like well I think this has been happening what is that shift oh I don't know yeah where's the you know what comes up for me is that image of of egar to's experience you know like uh it's got to be that W oh well let me ask you are you a CI no and I know I I do get that this is unique and it's going to be as it is yeah and it's a mystery so I won't it won't be known

yeah I think yeah it's um like I'm beginning to see why yois and stuff would go into caves and just kind of separate because I think it feels like um just the word you you know like we have to use it it's functional but um the way is heard you know it's um yeah I can see that

shifting I I suppose what I'm trying to say is that in daily life when you are in communication with someone else and you're talking and then if you're in your head and you know all this stuff is showing up it just feels so regular you know like it's not anything different and uh and you get caught up in the story and the blame or whatever is showing up like some of these energies are um have the capacity to draw you into identification with it right well that sucks but that's the noise yes that's the noise and the noise really is an ation knock knock knock knock it's my time you're going to look here or not keep

knocking yeah I suppose it's just that it's not always recognized in the moment so you live in the story of you defending or whatever like normal and then um I supposed to some point you come back and you go

whoa yeah I think what I'm doing is making that wrong like it shouldn't be happening so I guess that's like that's what I'm feeling like um that that that that is just another program just another one of those programs that it shouldn't be happening and because it's coming up and coming up and coming up that's the one to really look at

mhm yeah I see that I see that so yes it's kind of exciting and kind of annoying at the same

time but can you see how this is just the beginning a beginning yeah the beginning of back and forth yeah yeah

um let's say you read a book and the book ends and then there is an another book on this the same like an second book of the same story but it's already like maybe 10 years later and everything is different so it's not like a a chapter nine and then it's chapter 10 there is a shift because in that first book there was this kind of story and in the second book the story is like completely different even though it's about the same character but different in a way how it's how it's um perceived how life is perceived how stuff that is arising is perceived like what you do with it it's just unconscious running away from stuff was it able to meet it to look at

it things can change in magical ways beyond what the first book was capable the character in the first book was capable even

imagine that was my question was going to be like what's the difference so the difference in the second book is that it's recognized as a story so you can it the character continues for a while having experiences

yeah for a while yeah what do you mean for a while it's undoing it's everything's undoing yeah but I don't see an end to the character if you're going to live here wow somebody else will always see you as a [Music] character oh okay my cat has got a character it's not something inside the cat that has the character there's no cat inside the cat but you can still observe the character the likes dislikes and the behaviors but it's not something like an entity that is running it that's right the first book was about the entity running it going against the hill trying hard the second book is

like it's more like life unfolding without a uh controller or I suppose what I mean by character is as it's habits and conditioning it's a dynamic energy playing out you know and then we call it a character cuz likes and dislikes and how it shows up to other people in relation you can call it a character but then you know that is there's nothing solid there it's just life unfolded is that right yeah I feel like I kind of get that when you were talking to George about uh the separate self yeah cuz I think that's the

key like um you know Kad Maharaj or Rana Mahari they would use the word self with a capital S but it's that it's that uh Spa that beingness that you feel is you but then that you is not separate from here and now it's not separate [Music] from life itself because that's that's just it that's just it so when you say there's no separate self it just makes sense that it can't be it can't exist because it would have to be somewhere else and it's pretty obvious that it's always here now where would that entity that's separate from here and now be to live outside of the here and now yeah right so so it logically almost it can't be like what you feel yourself to be is the here now right because that's kind of what I'm seeing I I suppose I'm just talking because I'm wanting to get clear and get confirmation but uh but uh somehow makes sense because it's it's my experience it's

like yeah

whatever that I is it isn't separate

that seems pretty obvious

now yeah and we can use word God okay let's use word God God is God is everywhere at the same time there's only God there's nothing but

God that consciousness is God just a word okay just a word it's a useful word in this situation so there is nothing but God and here I am here is this beingness is this beingness separate from everything that

is no is it even possible it's

impossible so these words are only pointing to that United

Oneness infinite

being for other words Divine intelligence presence here now existence

Consciousness but again let's take the concepts away and just see where they pointing to you and they pointing to you to

this now let's say this is separate from God or this is separate from

Consciousness doesn't

so I've been noticing like when you were talking I can see it making sense and I feel like an excitement like okay um but my mind is not excited I could see all kinds of thoughts about imperfection or was a lack

yeah and even these thoughts are

included the thoughts that say imperfection are perfectly

included

it's yeah it's so stuff you hear you know like um just words taken on and then uh becomes expectations of things to look for like um you know how I don't even know if I want to go there I was going to tell you what's in my head but I don't want to confus and get

um so I was talking to Lisa K and she was somebody had asked a question and she was asking and she was relating her experience and uh I haven't had that experience so it was like mentally it's completely mental for me and it was like well it's like whatever I was came out and it went into everything it sounded so Fantastical and it was like a melting into everything like out of the body like some experience that I haven't had uh or if I've had I haven't I don't remember it

um and so my mind will bring up those ideas that are heard from someone else's experience and says okay it's lacking okay because you still feel separate you still feel like you're here and everything's outside you're not melting into everything you know like was say oh I looked at the moon and I thought I knew I was the moon you know I've heard that I think um the guy that did the uh Samar

movies I let go of all these thoughts and all of other people's experiences that um are stuck in my system and my mind is bringing up as laac it's like oh you're not you know like they tend to be so

so catchy if you want to

but okay if you read some books about yogis true yogis in India and where they levitate being in two places at the same time and God knows what else then you look at your experiences like what is this it's lacking but I'm not a yogi I'm here in this experience this is how it shows up is that

enough yeah I suppose I'm not feeling that's enough right like no I want that crazy experience so yeah then you should read some books about yogis and see what else is [Music] possible and then maybe this will be enough because you know that it's not going to show up the same way for you like it's showing up for somebody else just go to the

extreme like being human old programming yes Being Human here there are so many possibilities and capabilities that I don't even my mind doesn't even mat and if I read or hear somebody talking about some fantastic experiences and they want that I mean do you want their path have you walked in their shoes no you have your own

PA it's not wanting other people's path it's the expectation that that's supposed to happen no it's supposed to happen for them on their PA

otherwise I'm waiting to start levitating and it's not happening yet and I want to teleport and it's not happening yet there's something wrong with me yeah but those are like really extraordinary but the melting into everything seems like it's supposed to happen nothing limitating same thing it's just another experience ah so that's not an experience everybody has well let's ask people

here how many of you levitated uh been in two places at the same time or melted into the

moon [Laughter] everybody Josh

okay yeah it's time to let that go poof out of the window yeah byebye so much more space when there are know no ideas how this should

be now I want to melt into the morning I'm going to go outside today and try

[Music] it all right well I guess I'll let somebody else talk

this there another question come up here the whole time but it's like what happened to that existential fear that everybody has to haveen nothing like when aanti said so he was like said [Laughter]

go this seems too good to be

true you know nobody knows how it should be for you

yeah yeah see that I have to trust

that suppose that's what everybody says not knowing

so the second book when it

starts we don't know what's going to be in the end

but then So Many Adventures are

awaiting and the job is to be present the whatever is coming

up that's it that Mak so much sense because that's actuality that's reality that's actually living yeah yeah that makes so much sense yeah live your experience yeah and then it'll be what it is you have no way of knowing you can't look around to other people's experiences yeah I can see that that's what I've been doing and looking around

thank you so much thank you

the most confusing thing in all this search for self no self is is the word self

itself like what does that word even mean

self the capital S self the small self the separate self the no self myself yourself is that what is that thing that the word self points

to I like itself what is itself it's just happening it's just happening it's not being done it's a

happening it's not done it's it is

it's not moving it is it's not changing it

is and then that is is connecting to the experience what is the experience of something that doesn't move doesn't change and

is is meaning it's always on is

and here we

are and before I go I posted the interview with Pamela Wilson on um my podcast on my channel I recommend that one just because I love Pamela and it was wonderful to speak to her and she shared a lot and very deep stuff so if you have missed that look at up on

YouTube and thank you bye for now see you soon bye