Breaking The Illusion of Separation Once and For All!

There is one very important question to ask:
Are you ready to break through the illusion of separation once and for all?
On a scale from 0 to 10, how ready are you? If the answer is 11, then the hardest thing is completed. It happens When you are ready and willing to see the shattering. You do not need to know when or how. It's not up to you anymore. 
In this video, you will find some potent pointers and questions to direct your attention within. 

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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 88 Breaking the Illusion of Separation Once and For All!

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are interested in all things awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life.

There is one very important question to ask:
Are you ready to break through the illusion of separation once and for all?
On a scale from 0 to 10, how ready are you? If the answer is 11, then the hardest thing is completed. It happens When you are ready and willing to see the truth. You do not need to know when or how. It's not up to you anymore. 
In this video, you will find some potent pointers and questions to direct your attention within. 

we are here to explore and look at this question of the illusion of a separate self what is it how it shows up why to see through it and in the end seeing through it in experience rather than thinking about

it simply put no self means that everything is showing up staying coming and going all by itself there's no manager no controller nobody in charge nobody making things

happen basically there is no nobody running the show the show is continuing it's always on it's always here we are here I am here as this space as this no way awareness presence and everything that comes and goes is here to be seen experience explored loved enjoyed sometimes not so much but that what arises arises by itself I'm not doing it it's un happening there's being there is a

happening but happening is happening by itself so that point that there is nobody here is about that there's no one here running the show there is nobody here that is in control or managing what is showing

up and seeing that gives a tremendous sense of

Freedom it's kind of hands of the whe that I was holding on to for so long trying driving pushing pulling ah but none of that is needed it's optional you can play that game but it's all happening

anyway and if I give you the statement just a few words you can see what arises in you in your body in your mind and your emotions to see what arises and now we can start looking because that what is it's always here it's now it's not hidden or hiding it's just the simplest

truth that which is here is not separate from

totality that which is here simply

is and that includes everything it includes the mind and all its stories it includes the body and emotions and Sensations and colour sounds everything

how can anything be outside of life outside of

existence everything is

that and we see it we already see it everyone already sees that it just doesn't click consciously that this is how things are because of the belief of the conditioning of the programming that here is me I'm running this body I'm running this mind I'm running this

show and there is a lot of tension without

belief because something knows but it's not true and something here knows that there is another way and you may have had a glimpse or two or see it already

clearly but that longing for freedom and longing from [Music] for coming home is calling from

within and it's not going to stop until that call is

answered so here we are we're going to answer that

call right so there is no self there is no separate self so what so

what that's one thing that comes up sometimes so what and it's nothing it's just how things are it doesn't give you anything doesn't solve any life's problems doesn't make you likable wise or somehow special it's just saying that everything is Flowing

freely and there is no need to even try to control because there's nobody here that can't

control if that impulse to control happens it is Happening by itself just as a

programming like every word every thought every emotion every movement every sensation is coming and going effortlessly freely and it's always been like

that and now let's hear it if the mind has some objections says yeah yes but oh I don't see it I don't get it let's let's look at it and whoever wants to speak you can either unmute your microphone or just raise your hand and we can start exploring right George

please hi there Ilona hello everyone hello we've spoken before and since then I've really gotten clear that there's no separate self here there's no doer here there's no Chooser here the logic is impeccable I mean I can convince you of that but yet don't have to you you've already convinced me of that the problem if I could call it a problem is that even though I know that I'm still behaving and acting like a separate self yes so the the mind has gotten the information but somehow it it hasn't it hasn't filtered in yet and why wouldn't be exactly the

same I'm sorry ask me that again why wouldn't it be why wouldn't it be exactly the same as before

well I'm

expecting a peace of mind oh when I know that there's no doer and no Chooser then I'll stop self-blame I'll stop blaming everyone else because there's nothing to blame it's just happening so I sort of know that as I say it hasn't um I haven't embodied it yet of course and it's okay because when you see that everything is happening by itself that includes all the patterns all the conditioning all the thought habits everything's included so it's all Happening by

itself and these patterns or the conditioning is unconscious for most part like 95% whatever we do you say or think or feel is unconscious it's just repeating patterns right right so when you see that they are happening by itself why would they change you just see that they are happening on their own by

themselves but yes the freedom is here to allow these patterns to keep going what changes them is your awareness of

so for example okay let's say I believe that I'm changing weather uh I'm in charge of weather I'm in charge of this cloud and of that cloud that cloud is not mine but you know I'll take that one you know and if I decide that I'm controlling that cloud and I believe it and I look at the cloud and oh it's such a precious my precious Cloud I'm I'm doing it I'm making it happen right that's just a belief in reality there's no such a thing the cloud doesn't even know I exist you know so nothing changes if I see that it's Just Happening by itself the cloud is doing its thing comes when it goes it comes when it comes and it goes when it goes it's not my decision what that cloud is doing I'm not running the show see so now you're seeing your pattern your cloud and and there's an expectation that because I see it it should

disappear in a way yes but in a way no in a way now it's doing its thing but when you are becoming aware of that pattern of that conditioning the awareness itself is what is needed for that cloud to self-resolve for that pattern to self-resolve but it's not enough like to see that it's coming and going by itself seeing that space for the cloud to be as it is freedom for the cloud to be as it is and with that it's easier to look at it so don't worry that it's not changing it's

okay the Paradox of this is I'm sort of complaining to you that I haven't um you know I haven't embodied it yet but that complaint is predicated on the belief that I can do something about it right I'm I'm still I'm still the separate self here what I'm not doing it's just acknowledging well yes it hasn't happened yet and there's nothing I can do about it and it'll happen when it'll happen but haven't gotten to that point yet okay but with these patterns there are things that can help them as I mentioned it's your awareness that is required for the unconscious pattern to resolve so it's not like we are powerless it's that we are not what we thought we

are literally we are not what we thought we are like I am not a mind I'm not the body I'm not the behavior here I'm not the emotional reaction I'm not the sensation I see them coming and going so let's say this pattern of ah I expect this to be different that's a program that's a pattern that is learned learned by just watching other people videos watching other videos or hearing people speak or reading books it's says it should be like that right right so then there is an expectation of how this life should unfold here but this life is already unfolding in a unique way here it cannot be anything

else so it's more interesting to see how it is unfolding rather than oh why is it not like for other people ah for at other people there's just this experience here and yes seeing it first time it's an opening for a new chapter in life for exploration what's here how it works what's going on what all programs are ready to drop so it's your own unique and personal playing

field and yeah you can't expect that you see it on Monday and it's all embodied on Saturday

it's it's all these programs that have been built over this many years have to unpack and it's a gradual process it's a sure process but it it's not like that that all the programs are

gone okay very good thank you I think the bottom line here is I need need to be patient but again there's another

expectation okay I think the bottom line never mind there's no bottom it's continuous unfolding and there's no end to expansion no end to noticing and getting new insights and having different experiences and every day is a fresh day so that's all we have today and whatever experiences are playing out today are right whatever needs to be seen is going to come up and be

seen so yes yes to that yes to that and I'm so happy to hear that you got clear in this mystical magical illusion a while yes okay very good Ela thank you very much there someone else has his hand up and let's some other people speak thank you you're very welcome thank you okay Barry

hello sorry wasn't unmuted you can hear me okay yes very well oh great great great thanks um I was wondering if you could say a little bit about what precisely it means to see it in all the dialogues I've read the the guer is trying to bring them to the point where they actually see it because I feel I feel that I understand it clearly I look and it seems obvious that this is how it is but I'm not sure it seems like there needs to be an event or An Occurrence of seeing it like a aha moment mhm if you could just talk about that a little bit I appreciate it oh that's such a great question thank you

yeah okay so there is a difference between thinking knowing it intellectually by Logic by understanding and seeing that in your own experience and what I mean by seeing is just what is here you know that by checking not by

thinking how do you check it's like what is here what is here right now what am I in control right now what am I is there ey at all what is this eye I mean all these pointers are inviting to look so you know the question can be answered answer from thinking or from seeing and if you see something you can describe it for example if I ask you what's the weather right now in in your place behind your window you can think about it and tell me you saw a temperature somewhere on a computer screen you maybe heard it on the radio or your wife called you and said oh it's this and that you can think about it but you can also look through the window and Report not this and Report describe see the

difference right so when we read about this no self or self-illusion we read and then we think about it we contemplate it that's one thing but when you are looking in your experience and you can describe that's a different thing

so in your experience right now right

here is it is it

clear yeah it's clear the only

thing it seems to me that would prevent that Clarity or that would throw somebody off is the mind and thought

yes and so if you clearly

understand what thought is what the mind

is you can't but know understand that there is no self yeah so what is the mind

like in your experience right now in your experience you don't need to think what you read or heard in your experience what is mind what is the Mind arising thoughts okay so you can know that there's Mind by thoughts meaning verbal thoughts words words words and also

images so there is a stream of words and there is a movie or slides going on that's how we know there is

mind and are you doing any of it or you watching it or hearing

it you're watching it you're hearing it right it's just like a movie right as you said a movie you're watching a movie yeah with eyes open and with eyes closed there is a movie or slides and now if you start investigating maybe it's not even a movie but just like picture after picture still you know everyone is different but you can see that in your experience how that mind what we call mind shows

up but if you look at it its thoughts and images and it's not somebody there or something there or some entity there there inside the skull or inside the brain making that

happen so what we call mind is a thought it's another thought

and if you really look at it just ask this question mind mind please show me what are you what are you

what's your

experience uh I don't get an

answer you mean you get

silence right or like space between thoughts right or behind thoughts kind of openness that has no edges and no form right right that is the

answer right but I guess my original question was somewhat is there is there an event an unmistakable event like bam I got it not necessarily or okay that that's what I was wondering about yes they can be event no problem with that but it doesn't need to be an event no problem with that I that some people say it's like um you know you're waiting for fireworks it's like like it's coming it's coming I'm on the edge I'm on soon it's just going to explode into this beautiful wow experience but in the end it's just like poof

what nothing happens right but my experience is

that um almost looking behind me or looking how I respond to things in life is definitely changing is different than what it was and that almost it's like uh water off a duck's back whereas things are less sticky yeah over time they're less and less and less

sticky yeah so that waiting in a way can be obstructing the Clarity of the moment right now because waiting is saying that ah there's something else needs to happen this is not

enough somebody said it's going to be like this somebody said it's going to be like that and I'm waiting for that some magical aha yeah but every moment is fresh and that aha is every moment when you check what is here can be very subtle

M it can also be like quite a big event of energetic release and all kinds of stuff but it doesn't matter how it is for other people the only thing is what is here for

you and if that waiting is persistent that is something to look at really inquire into it or feel into it

it's a little bit like of course you had that experience when you you think you lost something but you have it in your hand or in your pocket or some glasses on your head but you're looking for them everywhere you can't find them and then suddenly you find that oh the glasses wearing a head it's like they never wear they were never lost it wasn't that you found them by looking everywhere you noticed what is already here and that's more like [Laughter] um that kind of thing yeah so it's like finding something that you never lost

or remembering that this lightness of freedom is something that is always been here that's very familiar ordinary it's not something special it's just so

simple that it was never lost it was just kind of Forgotten and hidden by layers and layers of uh programming and different beliefs

and if somebody is feeling that longing or waiting we can look at that it's here for a reason it's saying oh there is something in there to see to go in

see this illusion of self is not just a thought it's not just a thought it's also a felt contraction

felt contraction that is identified as me this is me this is what I am this is the sense of me this is separate self so understanding it's helping mind to kind of get comfortable with their

idea but the shift is not just seeing through the thoughts it's also unwinding of that contraction

which can come as a big experience or something gradual but

definite yay Al please yeah so sometimes there is a there is a something which is not noticed but it is still there like for example gravity mhm gravity you don't see but you see the effects and then you imply that there is gravity So when you say the illusion of self MH is it possible to look at it a different way that the illusion of self drops but there is still a self there which is actually putting all your thoughts together Etc and making you like in a in a Cell for example in a body cell the life is not visible there but there is some Life Energy going around which is keeping it all together right um well here's the thing there is a difference between what is actual and what is

imagined so it's it's crucial to see

that what is going on in actuality and what is going on in imagination is not the same

thing so how do you know that there is a self

I can tell from that lots of things you infer lots of things in life not imagination right but how do you know that there is a separate self or the self that is doing

things well one way could be that you notice other people doing things which are not chaotic they seem to have boundaries to them what they're doing they seem to make sense in their context so you can say that that person has a self and even when you see an enlightened person then you also see others see that enlightened person as having some sense to the to the life sure and if we look at nature everything every little tiny insect or animal bird or plant everything knows what to do you how to do and when to do including

humans so it's not like there is a separate self in each individual mosquito that you know is personal but the the mosquito knows what to do because of the laws of nature and the design and whatever how it works how it operates I just saw a mosquito passing by

was yeah life heard you yes so this human organism is part of that whole nature and it's got its limitations and it's working exactly by the laws of nature so to say that there is a separate self outside of nature making things happen you need to have an imagination for that but yes you can see there are part patterns there are bodies there are conditionings there are different Minds there are expressions unique Expressions but that doesn't doesn't prove at all that there's something separate outside from nature outside from Life as a whole making life

happen so everyone is run by the same aliveness nature is run it's intelligent energy I mean everything is in the right order doing the right

thing and it seems to be

working like the bees are doing their thing the birds are doing their thing the mosquitoes are doing their things the humans are doing their

things but how do know that there is a separate self inside as it's supposed to be inside the mind or inside the head or inside the body or somewhere inside what is that

inside I guess the self is by definition the separate self is by definition something which is only noticed inside if it is not noticed in inside then it doesn't really exist because that is an object which is noticed if it is not notice it is not existing

yeah so it is imagined so if it is not being imagined then the imagination doesn't exist and the self doesn't exist right we can come to this that you exist you are here do you know that

not totally but yeah what do you mean not totally do you see my hand movie yeah do you hear these words do you know that we on a zoom call now with a group do you know that yeah so do you know that you know that I only know that when you ask me then I reference myself and then I then the answer comes yeah okay that is true right but otherwise I'm not aware of that aw I'm not aware of that I aware right but you can always look at it and see that you are aware that you are aware yeah yeah and that's one thing that doesn't change you're always aware you're always on there is this knowing of Life happening knowing of Sensations colors sounds and thoughts and feelings there is knowing of experience

and there is knowing of knowing you know that you

know knowing that I know seems to be a part of that knowing seems to be an intrinsic part of knowing things like knowing that I see you knowing that I know is already embedded in that yes it's not a separate something

yes right so there is a whole world in imagination and expectations and based B on other people's experiences and it's wonderful because we can connect in that we can talk about that but really until it happens for us we don't

know and when we know we know it's not really I'm not really basing it on other people's experience it's an intuition M and an intuition is not necessarily based on here say or things which have been read or something like if I I've never thrown my cell phone before but I know approximately what will happen I just threw it I anticipated that

M

yeah oh mind is a useful thing absolutely can predict can anticipate he can expect he can see logical explanation and all that it's

working coming back to the question of the self or no self in this instance it's a

fabrication is it a fabrication if there's the the illusion is still there yes there it's usion I can show you something quickly um do you see the screen here there is a a square yeah yeah yeah with the green lines and the lines are they straight or they wonky moving curvy what would you say are they straight or moving they are weird they are I curved and then some sometimes straight and whatever so appear yeah I understand yes but if you take a ruler and if you just check it check it it's straight it's absolutely straight and you can check it and check it and check it the illusion of them being moving and wkey is not going to stop because you know that they are straight that's but see the the illusion is there I mean you knew that the illusion is there that is why you showed it yes I'm saying the illusion of self is there yes so in a sense that is a that is a different kind of reality that the illusion is there right but it doesn't make the lines W it up that is true so if the illusion of self is there it doesn't mean that this separate self is here you see yeah good point yeah because what we identify as me if you look at it the main things is I am the body I am the mind I am the pain I am emotions I am Sensations I am this this controller or manager of life but then if you if you start looking at each thing are you an emotion no are you a thought no are you the body no you simply are as this as this knowing the

space but are you the witness and the witness is another thought another

[Music] idea another identification I am awareness it's another

identification so the mind is trying to grasp something hold on to it and say oh no now this this is this word is what I am this thing is what I am but that space or that silence is

wordless it's undescribable because it cannot be

described but do you have like do you have uh sight

can you see you have sight yeah but you cannot it is a as far as you concerned it is just another word another imagination or what you have learned from other people yes but in experience directly all this is here in experience right now these colors these sounds everything is here but you don't know whether you have s you know the only the colors and the sounds and whatever you don't know whether you you don't directly know that you have sight but you infer automatically that you have sight that's the illusion

bit similarly one can imagine or I don't know uh infer that there is a witness mhm which is because one is aware so something must be aware so one infers that there is a witness which the Ancients called Brahman or whatever the in ad

right and the witness can can be called silence or Stillness or beingness yeah yeah yeah absolutely so it's just a word that points something beyond the mind mind absolutely beyond the word yeah yeah and with the language is kind of complicated because different cultures have different meanings yeah and different words mean different things for all of us unless we have our own definition and we check what it means for me I just something learned from a dictionary or one will learn to speak and maybe whoever told us to speak didn't know the right meaning yeah I apparently the Hindus with the ad ideas and the Buddhists had this argument for about a thousand years whether whether it's a Brahman with the witness witnessing or there is no self so my point was my point is that taking any stance on this is gets dissolved to some argument because you can't really take a stance on whatever is no mhm you can't really say okay this is the actual thing yes the other person might have good Arguments for the other side yes and I realize that you also do that I mean you don't take a strict non-dual kind of non weird stance a nonsense you me nonsense agree yeah yeah yeah I know I know yes

but the point is not to say that my description or my definition is the right one the point is to see that beyond beyond all the pointings and beyond all words

inexperience to meet that silence and know that you

know

absolutely and when you know that you know all the questions are dropping

away except those which arise spontaneously yes they arise and they kind of drop drop

away one of the another thing that I would know since I don't see anybody with a raised hand so I am taking the Liberty to continue here please one of the things that I have kind of noticed or whatever is that the same kind of thing is reached through the intense love like for example the uh the Christian idea of love where you you you love so intensely that the self becomes irrelevant to you and you kind of merge in whatever there is or not is and you feelings rise and they vanish and does that make sense yes yeah so it's it can it can be seen through the mind like dropping of all the ideas what I am not kind of stripping away to the silence can be through the

heart so when that gets

activated and the love is just pouring out it's absolutely no control

yeah yeah you become like a mad person yeah for a time at

least pretending to be normal for time yeah still function listening maybe but yeah

yeah yeah I met people who were barely functioning you know who were like in a crazy

State anyway thank you thank you

okay um I just got a message here from Kathy my microphone isn't working if I understand your previous comment waking up is the combination of seeing there is no there and releasing letting go in the body maybe a felt sense of acceptance that is just all happening

yes seeing that there is no controller there is a huge part of it and that controller is is tight it's holding on that it's not really control it's wanting to control and the wanting to control is so tight and we can look at where it arises and how it shows up and it's always to do with security there's one thing to be safe safe wanting to feel safe so wanting to feel safe is giving rise to wanting to control the outcomes so once that is seen through that there is nobody running the show there is no actress inside the role that gives freedom for that contraction to release gradually hopefully

and that that is the sense of self and if you can look at yourself right now and see what is that sense of self like which sense or how does it feel the sense of self where is

it how do you know it's a self not a contraction

so that thing starts to unwind open up release and it's actually a good practice to look inside the heart just looking in the heart seeing how it

feels noticing these contractions there in front of the heart in the back of the heart heart the top at the bottom anywhere around the heart it's kind of like like a main entrance into the space to the patience is through the heart so you can find your contractions that are there and meet them so they can start opening

up so this Awakening is is not just an event it's not just a drop of a belief it's a continuous thing it's

continuous continuous experience continuous noticing or knowing it's not like it comes and goes

anymore I'm talking about safe

safe is feeling safe is being able to relax completely deeply and feel good in your own skin feel good being yourself feel good being in the in your environment in your family in your life feeling comfortable feeling at ease light free that's feeling safe

and sometimes feeling safe may feel unsafe because of experiences that when when let's say I felt really safe then something happened something so horrible happened that now that feeling safe is kind of connected with that feeling of something is going to happen like I remember if everything is going well I would get frustrated or nervous or anxious because I know the next thing is going to hit me hard it's going to end and it will be horrible and I couldn't

relax because when day things are going horrible and everything is happening wrong I kind of feel like at home it's normal but when I'm relaxed when I'm feeling safe it was starting to feel unsafe

so that's kind of another deep contraction but all of them can release the more you look there the more you give that safety to

yourself see nobody else can do that for you

like all these contractions they want attention they want to be recognized allowed

welcomed

included then that energy that is being held there can come back into the circulation come back into the free flowing movement

so that sense of a separate self or sense of self can be identified as me what I am and it feels like that it feels

real but you are here with and without that sensation with and without that

contraction and you can know that every night when you go to sleep it's not

you wake up it may come up right on in first second but when you're sleeping is not

there and let's say you on your own and your on house you can relax fully completely that contraction is not there when you watching a beautiful sunset that contraction is not

there so it's not like I am that I see that I see that it's not what I am it's not me it's not even mine it's energy that is feeling tight and it wants my

attention and it's holding what waiting calling making noise coming up with all these

stories just saying I'm still here I'm still here I'm still here give me a

tent so that waiting or that Longing For Freedom or longing for awakening waiting for something to happen is that also that contraction

but you know this this energy this aliveness this mysterious occurrence is intelligent and it knew how to wind itself up into a not so it knows how to unwind itself out into the spaciousness that's the that's the whole journey first it was winding itself up into the knots into the

contractions and then there is a flip seeing oh I'm not that and in that space can start opening up

so what's the point of seeing through the self-illusion the point is that it's a new beginning it's an opening it's a fresh start it's the point where everything that was coming into tightness starts loosening up and it doesn't matter how long it takes 10 years 20 years 20 lifetimes I don't know maybe a 100 lifetimes

but it's

unwinding and sometimes people I talk to you they say oh I don't see a progress there's no progress in my

journey but then you start asking this question of what how does the progress look like the progress looks like being comfortable being yourself more and more

I mean this character the programming the environment the family the relationships everything

and here we

are right one thing to see progress is again coming from a self-illusion right

oh I think wanting to see progress is a natural thing

natural the self- illusion cannot think cannot do anything it doesn't even

exist it's kind of misunderstood misinterpreted misidentified it's not even there somehow mind is creating that idea about self-illusion and then it's it seems as if it's taking credit for stuff but that's the very illusion wanting progress is just a natural

thing like deeply we know that life can be light easy happy joyful peaceful harmonious balanced and all this stuff all this system is designed to harmonize itself and know that by by ability to heal like if you cut your s and the body heals it knows how to do it to do that comes back to the Natural Healthy

state so seeing through the self-illusion is kind of taking the main the main obstacle for that deep healing of the whole

system by recognizing that what I thought I am it doesn't even

exist and here I am

and thank you everyone for joining me tonight thank you so much for sharing thank you for talking and listening and yeah next next Thursday third Thursday of the month we can come back here and we can continue

okay thank you thank you

bye for now