Deep Looking Group Meeting: Exploring the Mechanisms of the Mind and Emotions

Deep Looking is a way to examine what is arising and uncover hidden patterns and mechanisms of the mind and emotions. By becoming aware and allowing energies to be as they are, contracted energies are released, and old programs tend to fall away. The Deep Looking meetings happen every first Sunday of the month. You are welcome to join the next one.
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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 89 Deep looking group session

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are interested in all things awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life.

Deep Looking is a way to look at what is arising and uncover hidden patterns and mechanisms of the mind and emotions. By becoming aware and allowing energies to be as they are the contracted energies release and old programs tend to fall away. The meetings happen every first Sunday of the month. You are welcome to join the next one. And if you could take a minute and rate this podcast, if you are enjoying it just give it whatever you feel is right, It would really help because that's how people can find it, thank you.

welcome to the meeting today's deep looking which means we can look at anything and everything that you have brought for the group meaning it can be a story uh a situation A Feeling contraction pain anger sadness Joy whatever you brought here it's here for all of us to look together it's like exploration together guided exploration but when I speak to somebody in the group it's best to give a space hold the space and watch what's going on inside just noticing whatever is arising for you and once the conversation is completed then we can share and if you have something to add on or want to carry on with the topic or have something else to say yes then we can speak with you so let me just express my appreciation for you showing up here

today it's so nice to be in between people who are interested and curious in exploring the inner Landscapes and whatever is going on here so much more interesting for me than outside or what's happening in the world well I kind of have to know it because it finds the way too

but yeah this is so much richness and love and compassion and kindness and things that life reveals in the most mysterious ways and I see myself like a first grade and first day at school every day I don't know I'm not Somewhere Out up on the mountain or somewhere reaching for the Stars I'm I'm here on Earth what is this place what's going on

here how to be here with everything that is going

on so I'm not looking to achieve or get somewhere or in a rush I don't want to rush

life it's more like oh leaning back into it what's going on and then whatever needs to come in comes in can be an email it can be a conversation can be a video on a YouTube something to look at in

here and deep looking is simply a tool a way a practice to meet whatever is

arising with openness curiosity respect allowing welcoming so that whatever is arising whatever is showing up can be

seen and when it's seen when it truly feels seen then it starts

opening and that's the that's the juice of it to witness it openly whatever that is that's why I enjoy so much to give sessions to give these group meetings because something in me is very happy when something opens up it's like

yay and these meetings are about you and what you bring to the group and let's say like everything that you bring is a gift because we are all connected we are all here on the same wavelength and whatever is working for one is working for everyone so whatever you have whoever wants to go first the space is open

I'd like to start okay sweet sweet and um first of all thank you Alana I always look forward to these meetings and I get so much out of them so thank you for doing this um something that's come up for me a lot lately is and it was it's funny because I kept think why is this happening why is this happening and I'm like for me to look at it um and it has to do with time feel very there's a lot of um things to do lately uh work

related and I keep noticing the thoughts that say I don't have enough time I don't have enough time to get this done then I can there's noticing of those thoughts and then there's noticing of the body's reaction the nervous system gets ramped up and it's very uncomfortable sometimes like this morning I noticed it as I Was preparing to join the meeting and I was able to to separate from it and breathe and notice what's here um but there wasn't this sense of well there was a sense of urgency I've got to get my computer I've got to make my breakfast I've got to you know um but at work I guess there's this more of a belief that it matters if I don't get things done and what I've been looking at is is time in terms of like I could be in bed for eight hours sick and time feels slow or I could be at work for eight hours and have so many things to do and time just feels so fast and like there's not enough of it and so there's this sense that time is just this perception I think I don't know this concept like it's not real I don't know where I'm going with this I'm just I'm wanting to look deeper into my relationship with time and how I um I guess suffering is created by my thoughts about it and not enough of it Sonic oh that's a very good question and a lot of juice in here there are so many things to notice so Hm okay first question for you in your experience how do you experience passing of time what tells you about passing of time

I think what what first came up is things getting done like the doing even though I I know there's no doer here but things are being done right meaning movement movement yeah movement yeah yeah we know of time when we see a movement like a a dial on the clock moved or the Sun moved or the Bon moved or something came in something left what we call time on another side is movement oh that's cool I never thought of that yeah so when you are laying in bed there is little movement there is a lot of time right everything slows down it's no rush at work there's a lot of going on yeah it seems like time is not enough this needs to be done that needs to be done that needs to be done thoughts everything so how we perceive time is through

movement okay now the next question is how do you know that there is not enough time how do you experience in your reality that there's not enough

time it's really just a thought because it's the same it's it's just here what's here is this I don't know how to put into it's just a thought that tells me there's not it's not just a thought there is also our allies response to it the thought is not just isolated occurrence the body responds to it there's tension definitely yes there's definitely reaction in the body um the breathing gets faster um the heart rate increases there's definitely contraction and tension yes so the tension is informing you that there's not enough time yes now the tension can be various things for example it can be

guilt or I'm not good enough I'm not doing it right and the guilt is it's funny thing because you know when I remember when I had that problem of not having enough time and always feeling rushed I found that it was killed yeah I think you're right because when you said that I'm like oh what was the difference between this morning wanting to make sure I got on the call on time and eating my breakfast and and I was like it's okay it's okay if I come a little late or eat my breakfast off camera but at work you're right it's like there must be some kind of feeling that I'm going to be judged if I don't get it all done yeah yeah that's that's helpful for me to look into that yeah there's beliefs there yeah okay yeah that I'm not fast enough I'm not good enough I'm not enough if I don't do this people will judge me yeah or I'll get in trouble came I'll get in trouble which is the shame shame yeah yeah

okay Cause when you when you look at time as what is this moment is timeless yeah Timeless Eternal now it's not moving everything is moving through that now it's never not enough time or it's never too much time is just now but there is psychological time past and future and things the movements need to happen in this space in that much

time and then Judgment of how it's

going and then feelings about how this is going

while being here

now so when it occurs and I'm noticing the tension and the and then I there's a noticing of the thought how am I going to get this done there's too much to do being able to to then ask or look into um what are the beliefs here what what are the judgments here is that correct yes you can hear you can listen to the inner voice that is telling stuff it's always telling stuff what's wrong usually doesn't say so much what's right can train it but it usually says what's wrong so you can listen to that take a note cu these are the the programs that are running M like a computer program you know the program program is running in circles reinforcing itself saying oh yeah we see nonstop yeah yes so you can listen to that voice and take notes of what it is saying and just when you have space for yourself look at that is that true

okay thank you that was help yeah it was helpful like it was just when you say things it's just so [Laughter] obvious thank you I you're welcome um one of my favorite examples about time is from Lord of the Rings I don't know if youve seen the movie but in the first part of this movie Lord of the Rings there is this Festival going on and these Hobbits are being getting ready for the festivities and this gandal the wizard is coming and she just entered the the village and one of the hobbits comes up to him and says gandall you are late and gandall looks at him and says Wizards are never

L that that's for me such a wonderful teaching that Wizards are never late I mean everyone's a wizard okay nobody's ever late everything is happening exactly in the right time when it's happening how do you know it's here so that psychological Rush Oh not enough time will I do it or not if it needs to happen it will happen it will happen when it's time

how can anything ever be late it's not going by my head's time right I know that one it's going by the universal time or the Nature's time or Cosmic loss and everything is click click click precisely in the right timing

always can't be rushed can't be slowed down and doesn't need to for the mind not enough time I have to run the bus is coming

great but that inner knowing of everything is exactly at the precise right time and there's no other way

and my own days are very busy like one thing after another five minutes to the meeting oh do they make the tea did they feed the

cat but somehow time comes to show up and here I am I don't I don't need to worry that I'm not going to show up or I don't need to worry if I show up one minute later I know that I will show up so let it just play

out would anyone else like to share about the experience your experience of time and timelessness and rushing or something like that

 I can share please yes um I'm driving so I won't put my camera on but just share my experience with time okay uh so I see that uh recently I feel it like uh this feeling of that everything is happening on time on its own time it's becoming stronger and the other feeling of uh as you call maybe minds or thoughts time that how everything should happen is the weakening so there are several there were already several occasions where I was getting in my thoughts time late and I was really stressed out that oh I am you know not being trustworthy and so on but the universe somehow arranged everything in that way that when I arrived it it appeared that was not uh not a big deal or somebody else was late as well and so there was not uh a big uh I think problem as it looked like but but it uh you know you Universe how to say arranged it so as a lesson for me as I see it that's my my mind which is scared and so on it's it's thinking of many scenarios and maybe scenarios more than good ones and that I should still trust even if I am late and it's U stressful to some degree that uh okay it's happening now that means you know it is happening already and uh the only thing I can do I can of course try to get to the place as fast and safe as possible but still somehow trust in that moment that it's what's happening that must be happening somehow yeah so this is the experience recently I have and I feel more calmness with that and it looks like it works out situation from situation I I kind of get get this approved that yeah you should trust more this sense of inner sense of that everything is happening on time and trust trust that it's okay oh thank you so much for sharing sounds like you have your Wizards had

on oh thank you yeah I have one actually when while working with the children so okay I knew

it yeah cool thank you yeah it's it's a it's an a whole different experience I would say yeah some other experience of time or a trust to trust in the in

Universe thank

you uh I'd like to say something okay please uh first of all I I I would like to say it's so beautiful to see how you introduced this meeting like you know it doesn't matter how many people shows up it doesn't matter who is showing up the joy to share it's so beautiful to see it's it's beautiful I just need to say

that and then also what resonated in me it was when you talked about

um you know because it's something that it's happening to me lately like less interest in what's happening outside and more interested in in you know the how do I feel about like there's something to see in this direction like lat there is you know if you can see something is been uh turned in my direction like instead of be caught by what is that I'm looking there is much more interest in wait a moment but what's really looking you know and in in this way I feel a lot lot of weight went away you know about my expectation about you know you want to I want to awake I want to you know get enlightened all this kind of stuff and with this new if you want attitude I just don't care if you know because this is enough I don't know if it makes sense to you but it was just makes much sense yeah see the Seeker is somebody that wants to get enlightened or wants to get awakened or wants to achieve something or get somewhere and if you don't want that then you are there

 already yeah because it's so clear that everything is related to this you know me there's no one single thing that is not referring back to this me and it's the only thing that now I understood I mean like

yeah yeah cause there are external movies and there are internal movies and we don't we never uh thought about exploring the internal movies yeah because external has got so much pull and so much distraction and it wants your attention so much that there is no time left for this this is like taken for granted yes always been here it's always here yeah so what my experience so what but when when that shifts when that turning happens it's like whoa that's a richer life richer Fuller experience opens opens up and so much more going on than just a background noise this is the juice and that is the background

noise it feels also much more intimate

[Music] and what I love is that we all have individual experience there's nobody out there that can know my experience or have my experience or knows what's best for me that this experience here is uniquely and privately

mine so this this amusement park that opens can say it's a secret a sacred journey to find out what's going on in this

expression how is life showing up as

this and what and how it works

here like being awake to the body to the mind to the emotions to whatever else is going on being awake noticing experiencing being with

that not looking for

anything not looking for anything external it's like it's all here you know what else in it

okay please hello hello so you just said you move your attention from outside to inside but what moves the

attention like I can move I move my attention because it's moving but can it be totally still or what moov moves it I think what moves it is um let me just find the words

okay okay this there's a knowing of possibility if there is no knowing of that possibility it doesn't move it stays out there but if there is knowing of that possibility that knowing itself kind of turns it around see that the attention is directed attention is like alive current of universal energy or some aliveness energy or something something that is present is receptive and sensitive that's

attention and attention is directed

what do I mean by that okay let's say can you feel your left foot everyone feel the left foot I feel the left foot what happened why suddenly everyone's feeling the left foot it's because the word words or some kind of invitation or instruction to take attention there and you didn't do anything about it there was just words here receptivity attention left foot it's directed

or there is a loud sound attention catches that my cat just said now my head

turned see as we speak it's there's aliveness there's responsiveness there is something that open and listen in and watching and noticing what's going on doesn't matter the body is sleeping or awake or doing something there is something un attention

goes that's a [Laughter] antenna Hm so what moves attention it's alive I would say it's alive like a electricity is alive and if there is that knowing of the possibility it can turn if there is no knowing of the possibility it's like can you move attention to your tail you can't there is no tail there's no knowing of the tail I can't cuz I have

one but yeah you can play with it and see what moves your attention how it

works well I do that quite often when you do like a body scan yeah but it's like it's coming from the outside from outside like like what do you mean from outside Yeah Yeah from outside my body when it looks here yeah like if if I scan it's coming

uhhuh so at some point you learn to do the body scan or you discovered that you can do a body scan

it's like a skill like you can do it it

works and whatever prompts that in the

moment it's what moves the attention to do that to go

there yeah what yeah is that a thought that wants to go there I don't I don't think it's a thought because thought is a trans translation of experience into a symbolic language it's a translator it's a narrator the voice is telling about what's already happened what it wants to happen but the experiences experiences impulses feelings Sensations color sounds they smell but so there is something that arises within like an instruction or desire or intention that arises then the thought comes in and labels that what happen translates it into a language so that the Mind itself can

understand but I see thoughts or words or images as vessels that carry information carry energy carry meaning but vessel in itself is is just that empty and when you say that when you hear that you know thoughts create or thoughts um how to say negative thoughts positive thoughts these are this what these words are carrying they're carrying some energy or some

information it's not thoughts that create it's not like a pen that writes a letter something else uses that pen it's needed it's a way a tool a way to express but there's something else is going on and that that translation into words is automatic so whatever impulse comes in and says oh H scan the body the thought is already here I'm going to scan the body but the impulse came first

how is it in your

experience yeah I don't think the thought it just it's something I do

oh whatever I do my attention I don't tell my attention to go

somewhere but it still moves all the time it can also be trained yes it can be trained attention but it's always on move not moving yeah and it can be trained because uh let's say you need to do something and you have to focus for one hour intensely right and maybe in the beginning it's difficult but it can be trained a focus on on on a DOT on the wall how long can you stay with a DOT on the wall maybe 30 seconds but you can be

trained if there there is that knowing that it can be trained if there is that desire to train it then it's a

possibility okay it's like you go in the mansion and there are lots of doors some doors are open some doors are closed if you if you if the door is closed you haven't been there you can will never visit that room you'll visit the rooms that are open so it's attentions if it doesn't know that that's a possibility would not go there that need the door needs to open then it's

available that's why it's good to you know listen to people sharing about their experiences and uh discoveries and insights because that hearing may open some kind of doors and you can get curious about that in your experience and then attention can go there see oh what's here I never knew this was here it was here all the time

wow thank you thank you

I will go next Ilona okay how are you I'm good and listening to this conversation um I want to explore something else um I feel a heavy pain in my heart area right now uh when I joined the call that pain was not there but as the call went slowly this pressure in my heart area started increasing it's like a it's not a physical pain at all there is no physical pain it's just a contraction like a y balloon getting pressed um I was trying to release it it wouldn't go away it it want to show up that's why I'm talking so wonderful let's look at that okay you can close your eyes and just feel it feel that pressure feel that balloon does it have a

color

Okay I let's allow it to be here let's not say that oh you go away or you don't belong here Rather say yes yes welcome thank you for coming what an interesting curious energy this is you can be here very welcome to be here

and it is safe to feel it it's enough space for it

here yeah with all the kindness and patience and sincerity

let's ask this energy and what do you want the

most want to relax oh to relax yes say I agree yes yes yes please welcome to relax

and say are you ready to

relax yes sweet say thank you so much you have full permission and are you ready right

now yeah okay we say then you all already free feel free to relax as deeply as long

as you want you're free and feel it that's it just feel

hold

attention let it do what it

wants what's happening with that balloon

the contraction moved from my heart area and it's now up in my head but it is not that painful anymore it's it definitely loosened a lot and is it comfortable in the head does he want to move just

checking how are you

doing are you happy here

I'm not able to open my eyes but it feels comfortable feels comfortable okay Al say you are welcome to self adjust find your right place right size come back to your natural state yeah just self just relax like you are at home you're

home welcome

home yeah yeah yeah no no thoughts in the space thanks Ilona feels good it's good yay something relaxed it did definitely did thank you

I am here What is this beingness is here Something is here Here now this just pure awareness and knowing yes something is yes Okay So that space that openness or that receptivity is on and then in that receptivity there are many things happening like this physical

body with all the pains and cells and digestion and hair growing and all the needs of the body and food and everything is going on It's always being noticed It's present Right And then it's not just this physical body There is um emotional body or emotional structure where all the hurts and pains and hopes live like they felt in the central head throat heart belly kind of here sometimes in the back doesn't happen in the hands or feet I don't notice that emotion and sadness would be in the hands It's more like here right So there is definitely this emotional structure emotional

body that is also seen and perceived in that space And then there is a mental structure which is around here like we all know where the thoughts are happening It's not in the foot or elbow It's it's around here mostly So this mental structure is beliefs ideas memories

imaginations And it's also here you notice that by thoughts that arise and by images that arise It's like a two streams of information one visual Some people don't imagine that's fine They feel it differently But there are usually words and images Left side right side brain kind of work together So this is a mental body or mind We call it mind Okay Then there is let's say another body like a astral body The body that is invisible but it's a dream body something that shows up in a dream or some people can astral travel or have out of body experiences that that subtle bodies and how many of them are there who knows I mean how how attuned your antennas are how receptivity is working here in this experience but yeah there is a dream body it's not the same as physical or mental or emotional Then there is a connection or spiritual aspect spiritual structure which informs us about feeling one with God or one with the universe or one with everything or feeling that everything is love and beauty and that kind of structure It's either on that yes I know that I see that or off I feel separated I I'm not cared by God I'm not supported by life and I'm here on my own I have to make things happen That spiritual aspect is is another another structure So these are just a few I mentioned but okay there are there is DNA there are cell structures there's nervous system there are so many things going on in the space of awareness So this space of awareness this beingness is where everything

happens and everything is designed by nature to work in balance and harmony with itself Like all the if you look at this like ecosystem like everything is balanced out everything is working But now our bodies not just physical emotional mental our bodies have been traumatized by experiences in life And these traumatized parts they are like scars Like if you cut yourself and it heals but there's a scar there's some harder more painful maybe place on the body So there are scars in emotional body and in the mental body

So when something is is hurting in one of these structures all they want is to come back to the center to heal because when it's organism is alive it has this ability to heal by itself That's nature That's how we know it's alive Because let's say my phone cannot heal if I break it but the body can Right So this uh aliveness is the natural ability to

selfheal Right So now let's look again If there are scars or hurts or wounds in any of these bodies in these structures then these wounds they naturally want to heal and they are healing And healing means that maybe that part of me is out there I don't want to look at it like this No I don't I don't I don't want to see it But if you look at it you look at it it's allowed It's it's seen attention goes there and that wound starts to close down and heal and the energy of that scar comes back to the center comes back into circulation and is working as intended properly aligned with with the rest of the system

So all these wounds that are still here invisible and invisible they just want

attention And if that attention is given freely without trying to make it go away whatever that is But if it's like oh I'm curious now I'm interested What is that How does it work What's going on here that attention kind of meets the natural ability to heal and something happens It clears it dissolves the wound It returns back to the holand

So I think this is how our systems now are on the healing process on the coming back to wholeness or we can call it embodiment or whatever emotional clearing spiritual healing You know if you look at this how many layers so many things seen and unseen that we don't even know how many layers are out there how many bodies out there for for for most of my life maybe not most of my life but I thought it was just a physical physical that's it yeah I'm this body I'm this physical being I'm driving this body and even though there are these words I have emotions I have thoughts It was just identified and taken for my beingness until poof the beingness is not in the body The body is in beingness The emotions are in beingness Everything that is showing up is here for me to see And that knowing is not some kind of individual entity that sees but rather this aware space that aware receptivity that is able to meet with attention that attention is able to meet and let everything

be And that's the magic Then everything naturally starts coming back into the right place into the right

order So when some interesting emotion arises and feels tense it's like "Oh it's my turn now I want it I want I want some attention Give me attention." Okay Thank you Bye-bye

And this particular contraction that I just felt Ilona um even if I go to physical doctor um they cannot I don't think they can test this with any of the devices that they have This is definitely not physical This is as you said like this is another layer that only I can feel and it has no words at all It just something that only this particular thing can feel and it cannot be tested with anything that man has invented It's like that So uh yeah I just wanted to share it Yeah Yeah Yeah Thank you That's the playground That's the ride Wonderful Thank you I'm going to put on some light and see

That's that

Please who else would like to step in for a sharing Yay Please

please Oh man I've been sitting here kind of scared like I don't know if I want to share So I said I better so I can see what shows up Um so this morning I had a random thought come up and uh the feeling in the body was like shame And so I stopped to turn into it like you like you've taught to identify it like where in the body is and um I can't find it It's shame and I and then I started looking for other memories that would bring up the same feeling and I want to call it shame but I can't locate it It feels like it's everywhere and um when it shows up or like when it showed up this morning it was just like a passing thought then the body was like I don't know if that happens to people where you have a memory or something that brings up shame and you just go like

that was like a like a reaction but then I stopped and I was like whoa and then I just kind of settled into the body to find it and it was gone Um and I realized that I have that experience from time to time And I guess my question is I can't seem to apply the teachings of deep looking

because it just seems like interesting because you you you did Oh I did You just s you just sat there even looking at it trying to find it identify it and it was gone That's it Oh Oh okay I guess I was um had the expectations of it going through a big process Sometimes it's needed but not always It's instantane As soon as you turn attention to that you can self resolve as quickly as that Okay And when you Oh that's good Okay But let's just test it If you have the same thought that brought all this energy in does it still feel the same No Actually what I felt was anger like uh but directed at myself like

um hang on Yeah just think that thought and zoom in and see what's I I've been on it since the whole time I've been sitting here I just trying to get the courage to ask So I kept going back to the thought and

um yeah hang on

Yeah it feels like how can you be so stupid Okay like that like um but it's not it doesn't it's not regret so much as uh

um yeah the thing is that the whole thing falls apart because I can also see that the capacity for something else to be just wasn't available at the time So it kind of just falls apart But

um it feels like something internal wants to make like a line and says no more Wow Wonderful Yeah So it's not this No I've been feeling this more and more It's like as I look in it it it becomes so obvious like how much shame I've carried and it's been like put in by life just what happened like not just from childhood you know little things like you do something and then you're told by an adult don't do that or something and then you feel shame and Um and I been trying to distinguish the difference between remorse which which I would say is the system telling you well that sucked Don't do that again or shame which is feels heavy and personal like I'm a piece of [ __ ] kind of kind of feeling or um yeah it just there's something about it that feels different So I've been trying to distinguish like as I explore um traumas and stuff Mhm But what's become what's become really obvious is how much um shame like about everything it seems especially religious shame you know like it's like literally making shame into a virtue Like if you feel bad and you're shameful then you're a good person I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but it feels kind of like

um Okay let's look into it If you feel shame that means you're a good person Yes

Yeah that doesn't make any sense So what is a good person

The story is like um taking on other beliefs and uh living out what other people consider to be good behavior in society Like if you feel something that goes against that but it's a feeling that shows up then that's a shameful feeling So you just it's like constantly shaming yourself for things and that so this opened up Yeah And that is that means you a good

person I mean how does this good being a good person ties in with shame really Yeah Hang

on Yeah I got it wrong It's not shame It's guilt Guilt It's guilt It's like

uh Okay Like I can give you like a scenario This opened up from uh me exploring the um dynamics that were put in place with religion And so it's like I open a can of worms

Yeah So all this stuff is showing up and um like you know uh you're presented with the situation and uh and and then someone says "Oh poor thing That's such a horrible thing And uh but you're not feeling that You're like you either don't give a [ __ ] or you're just not feeling that If you don't feel that then you're a bad person You're supposed to feel uh you know it's like being told what you should feel And then either guilt and shame set in when you're internal experience doesn't mesh what you're being taught Mhm And so I was being taught in in a religious setting what behavior should be how you know it's like completely fake And so coming out of that fakeness now memories coming up and it's just like gh Mhm You know it's like

uh like Yeah Like oh my god that's like so stupid like just uncomfortable in the body but I can't I I can't My original question was that because I thought I had to feel it in like a specific spot in the body but it's just like it's like fire It's just like and then but it's everywhere You know what I mean I can't find it but it's just like and it's really uncomfortable So it's I don't even know if I have a question anymore I guess I just wanted to know if uh I guess what came in after because you know how things happen and then the mind comes back with some explanation and then I believe it and so I get lost in thought and what my mind was saying is you're doing it wrong because you're supposed to go in find it in the body watch it move talk to it like I already had Yeah Yeah Yeah But you see that's like again some outside authority is telling you how you should feel Yeah It's just the same pattern But that mechanism that loop in the head is saying that I should feel what somebody else tells me to feel or how it should be for me Yes grab that That's nonsense

That is really clear That's the pattern Like uh that makes me so sad Like all this sadness just showed up like Yeah Yeah Yeah But the moment that something shows up or that happens that's where you where it's leaving That's when it's got free Oh

If let's say 20 years ago somebody told you you should feel something but you didn't and you just were cringing at that even thought your body was like oh but you couldn't express that because it wasn't allowed because you have to be a good woman or good girl and that that stayed in there but now it's coming through like that thought brings it out the energy shakes out that done finish So there's nothing else that you need to feel You already feeling what you need to feel That's it

Yeah Yeah you hear um these pointings and sorry my cats are fighting next to me Um I was just going to make a comment that just I just realized it's like um like an actual experience when all this stuff is applied and when things show up like we're

learning it's not as linear or as clean as when we talk about it when it's pointed out And it seems like um

I know like the the

um like in like the dismantling of the patterns always like it seems like it shows something else and then something else It's like Yeah Yeah Very true Because when one piece comes back home then the next piece is like I want to go home and then the next piece and then the next piece and the next piece Everything wants to come home But until this one comes back this one is still in the queue I'm waiting You know maybe once this is here I can return

All right So I think I'm

gonna do this Um I'm just trying to make a really see the pattern of having an external external source tell me how it's supposed to be how it's supposed to feel because it feels like those expectations is actually what's um what needs to be seen This is kind of like in the way of uh allowing life to flow as it is here It just feels like um so uncomfortable because it's like just so new you know like uh it's almost like what I feel is to be held by the hand and told what to do Okay you're supposed to feel this you're supposed to do this You know what I mean That's why those thoughts come of like it's messy who doesn't seem you know okay what comes in to to say you know when a little baby he just starts walking so first thing it's crawling on the ground and then reaches for the table chair and just pulls himself up and like standing a little bit wonky on the feet and falls again and just pulls up Now if there would be 25 instructors telling the baby how to walk and how to put one leg up front of the other and how to reach I mean that baby doesn't even understand the language but his body his system knows It's already installed that this body is going to walk And it's just trial and error trial and error falling standing up walking taking the first steps running running faster The system

knows and these instructors in baby's example they don't work at all But like in our adult situation yes the instructions are great but it's still it's you still is about your inner wisdom that already knows how to feel how to think how to see colors and hear the sounds You don't need to be taught that

Yeah that makes a lot of sense Like that hit home Like I feel it And I also feel that when you said the word trial and error the word word error was a problem It's

like what what it feels like not to make an error like it isn't safe Mhm Yeah So I see that that's um Yeah I have to trust it Yeah

Your cats are all happy

I can't tell what's going on I don't know if they're fighting or loving

but cats they don't think what to feel or how to express They just masters of that right Being themselves

Yeah You know what it's like It's like I It makes sense Like I I can I know that it's true like somehow but I also feel so much apprehension

and that's what you feel and that's what you feel and that's okay too and this is the next thing that wants to heal with your

attention I think the biggest difficulty is really is seeing the closest thing that is right here But we can't really focus here Can't see it That's why the pointings are so good because it brings attention to that something that is too close to see or the blind spots that we don't see

by the system learns by trial and error Literally it's natural

normal When you fail you know you learn something It's not bad It's

wonderful So you know what doesn't work you try something

else And that program that says that you cannot fail it's too close It's too close You can't see in it You see through that but look in it into

it Error is bad You shouldn't fail

Yeah I think it's because it's got identity all wrapped in it too like God which I am is a separate limited entity that can be hurt that can be

um yeah it's a it's it feels like a a wanting to be safe from the external so you can't make a mistake A mistake is painful That's like the what's in the system that needs to be like processed I just going to trust it cuz I know now I can see like when I'm in your presence it's just clearer you know like oh because I can see that none of it is true you know what I mean I can see that it's that that it is patterns

um but just like this morning when stuff happens it's not this clear you know like I get lost in my head and and sometimes it lingers for a

day So I suppose it's not making that wrong

Yes Yeah

Thank you so much I want to sit with this Sit with this

Okay I have a question Okay Oh hello Um recently I was uh yeah listening about u this uh illusion of a separate self Mhm And that this is an idea which uh some moment seen it as an idea and it's uh how do you say this identification with this separate self starts to vanish I guess maybe not not for all time but more and more and um uh even right now I'm I'm uh kind of having this experience of uh uh of having a distance between me and this separate selfidentification Let's let's call it like this And uh still I I could say it feels like it is

a maybe contraction I don't know if it's the proper word but uh there's some Yeah some feeling of this uh idea of separateness Mhm And I wonder is it uh is it natural to still feel it like like this you know uh uh or is it uh you know how do you say is it evaporating through time or is it natural to feel that okay this is this idea and it is part of me maybe the idea that I am separate and um uh I am not the how do you Okay Yeah Part of the hole a bigger

hole So yeah I don't know if it's clear but uh I just was wondering about your experience because I guess you uh do you do you still identify your I don't know separate self feeling or is it uh gone forever It's it's very very interesting because there is no separate self feeling Oh what you're feeling is contraction tension muscular tension some kind of emotion It's not a separate self feeling

How do you know this feeling is a separate self

Maybe for me it feels like it is connected to personality It's like

uh if I how would you

say yeah if I don't feel if I feel more like let's say wider feeling of being part of something bigger uh I don't feel this contraction but if I am more feeling like a personality like a person maybe oh then I feel this uh and I can still somehow So located in the in the space where where let's locate let's locate that feeling Yeah Where is this feeling of a separateness So interestingly it is not in the body It is I feel it's just outside let's say my to my right side my head head height somewhere there Let's look what's there

Um so as I as I mentioned it's it's feeling like some kind of energy contraction but it's a contraction energy somewhat Uhhuh Okay So how do you know what informs you that it's a a feeling of separateness Okay

Uh maybe because it appears when I'm um I'm how do you say trying to consciously uh locate how is this uh feeling of separess feeling I know how I feel it how I find it in myself let's say and then it appears I see Oh okay This is still here I feel it Okay let's look at that Feel it Feel it And say "What are you?" Just curious What are you

What are you

I don't know It feels like it says I'm Remainance I don't know how it's in English of of of this feeling of separateness Mhm For me reminder No No Yeah A reminder Uhhuh Something that remains after Yeah I'm saying what do you want

Hm I just want to be seen It says you know Okay I'll tell it I see you

Um I see you And also I can also feel that it is um a little bit unpleasant but yeah I see it Yeah I see

are you that sensation

No And what is the sensation separate from

What is separate from Yes

I don't know It's in the space

So it's kind of in the space It's not outside of life outside of space No No Mhm It's inside So how can it be separate

Uh yeah It feels more like an idea of separateness maybe Here we go There's an idea of separateness some imagined sensation But when you start looking there's there's nothing at all that informs about anything being separate from the whole Yeah it is in not not somewhere outside

Well welcome then Yeah Welcome home

you belong

Oh it's so nice to I feel like it's very nice to hear for it that it's it is belonging here That I'm not trying somehow to get rid of it

Tell it you can be here as you are I see you

And even if you don't feel very pleasant still you're welcome to be here

Oh you know why it feels not pleasant It's because it's contracted energy squeezed or somehow locked or stuck like a scar you know M so we can invite it to come back to its natural size Say oh show me your natural size What are you in your natural side How much space do you want today There's enough space for you Yeah I feel it's a radical change of my attitude because you know I'm very friendly now towards this energy Uhhuh But it can expand and come back to its most comfortable state And that feeling once expand actually

Mhm So you're welcome to self adjust You're

free And it's quite huge

So that's filling of the space happily I guess the whole space Yeah

Yeah And I I can feel this uh delight of let's say of that energy that it can expand So

lastly I feel at

home and also it feels like it's integrating it in a sense that it was I could locate it uh but now I it's hard to locate because it feels like it's gone or or out of space but everywhere Yeah So now this what is a feeling of a separate self

Yeah I don't feel Yeah It's there until it's

but it's misidentified energy

and it was contracted somehow didn't feel well Yeah Because it was misidentified

So it's best to ask it what are you and let it tell you rather than oh this is the separate self This is a feeling of a separate self What are you Mhm

And you're welcome You're welcome to be

Yeah it's it's feel it feels very healing

this space of welcome welcome space I don't know how

um it allows this contracted allowed this contracted energy to expand and take its natural shape which was which is as I feel it huge actually was so contracted Mhm

It feels even like there's more silence about the same right Yeah Because that contraction there is It's noisy

It's like a noise When it opens up it's no more noise [Music] And also more I I can feel more peace which means that there's more less less tension I guess as well Yeah

Yay

Wow

Wonderful Thank you Welcome

I really feel is

Can I ask you another question Ilona Yes Yes Yes I have when I have an  
argument with my daughter instead of going like really down Can I can I where do I put my attention instead of just following and going really down

It's not a simple question

Is it possible to like selfheal in the moment or is that okay Let's say like this

Um if you have some time for yourself and you look into all these dynamics and what's going on and patterns and feelings on your own by yourself or with somebody and when energies resolve then the next situation with your daughter is going to reflect that But in the moment if there is an argument and the old pattern is on is activated it's playing out is just playing out You need to have a lot of awareness to stop it or change it in the moment

Yes it's very but that but that awareness is available when when you look into these issues by yourself before that

happens It's like programming live action programming live action programming live action And the live action lets you to see how much the programming is

changing because everything in that live action is unconscious going on unconscious automatically There's no manual ruling there There's no choice there Like a button is pressed these words come out Button is pressed these words come back That's the fight Like one wound is fighting another wound What can

hurt in that There is no healing The healing comes after

That's the re-hurting reactivating the pain That the healing is

after like after the argument how do you feel when you think about your thought or when you think about what was said No it's more that I feel I don't like the experience I feel in myself or what not not what she's saying and or what I saying It's more like I don't like the experience but I just want to get rid of it Right So you start from that acknowledging that I don't like the experience and I want to get rid of it That's the starting point I want to get rid of now What are you What do you want to get rid of Precisely Yeah What's not allowed The feeling I feel bad that I cannot handle that I have the bad experience that I cannot have an argument without getting this feeling It's not what she says to me That doesn't matter what I say It's more like it's Yeah experience of it Okay But the experience is not asking you if you like it or not Can it come or not It's there It happen Yes It happens And I don't accept it Right So there is an experience There's an event and there is a relationship with that event I don't like it Shouldn't be happening I hate myself

So that that relationship is where you're looking at that experience because that experience it happened

Now how is it going to be internalized in a positive way or in a negative way That's the relationship In a negative way is the self-taught uh how wrong I am Why is this happening to me This shouldn't be happening There's something wrong with me or there's something wrong with her Uh I don't like this This is negative internalization through your what you hear voice and hate But it can it can also be a positive one Same event happened But that event brought something up that needs to be looked at and it's here It's already here That means it's ready to

heal And with that you can access that wound Just letting it be Okay It doesn't feel good So what A wound is a wound It doesn't feel good Of course it doesn't feel good It's painful It's horrible But it's okay It's okay to go in there It's okay to give it attention And that's the way

out Oh I don't accept it I don't want to accept it So what It wants your attention So how long are you going to resist the giving it attention or take take your responsibility in charge of how you feel

Sometimes this anger okay it's a quick energy it's a powerful energy and it has a lot of potential to change the situations you change bring it change it like bomb bomb anger you say something you need to say and situation changes after that but if it's if it's not that if it comes in the body and stays in the body and you feel angry or upset or drained for a week or longer That means it's poison It's more like it stays Yeah Bear and everything and it stays for quite a long time Yeah But that's poison

Yeah Now if you drink

poison do you think anyone else gets hurt by that No So why do they drink poison Exactly So knowing that that it's not

helping it's easier to look at it and see what it wants Maybe it just wants to be seen acknowledged recognized As simple as that Mostly is

that Maybe he wants to go

Hopefully All right But that that's the thing That's the work That's the in between the events What happens in between the events Because if that anger is not here then somebody else can say whatever they like it's not going to come up because it's empty of anger There's no anger If the anger is here if that poison is there somebody says something and it arises then you know you got it inside of

you So what do you want to do with that

poison Get it out

Yes Yes to that Yes to bringing it up Let's invite it Now you think of the argument and feel whatever you're feeling with it

You got it Where is it in your system Where is it into the chest Okay Stomach chest Mhm Now you see that energy It's not you You are seeing it Tell it I see you Acknowledge you're

here You're allowed

You're welcome You can

be and tell me or show me what do you want the most You ask that energy What do you want the most I'm curious

It's just quiet Quiet Let's be quiet with it Just seeing it Feeling it Yeah Okay

That's
good How's that energy

to okay just in case it once or waiting for a permission or invitation so you have full permission to self adjust I invite you to self adjust come back to your natural state natural size natural form natural function natural meaning the most comfortable that works in harmony with the whole

distance Your true form back

home Welcome

home Yeah that's better Welcome home then instead of I want it just to go away Yeah that's

good Thank you And just before you go think about your your daughter and the argument again Just think about them Is that energy flaring up responding the same

Little bit in the chest but very little So acknowledging

that Yeah Welcome home to you You can be

Many years of falling

off acknowledging that Yes many

years And your daughter doesn't need to change for you to be comfortable

My tail is back

 Oh no

Okay Well thank you everyone It's always wonderful to be with a

group And um I just want to say that next Wednesday I'm releasing a special episode in my podcast on YouTube and on all the platforms and it's going to be with Pamela Wilson So I recommend to listen to our talk and she's she's someone that inspired me for this work and she shares her secret or her tip how she meets everything and it's wonderful

Thank you Ilona Thank you

Thank you Thank you Thank you Ilona Thank you bye for now