Discover the Hidden Childhood Pattern That Drives Your Endless Seeking

I help spiritual seekers to end seeking so that they can enjoy a life of freedom.
https://bit.ly/3T0JYqJ 

If you've been seeking awakening for years and feel like you're almost there, but something keeps holding you back - you're caught in the seeker's ultimate trap: the very act of seeking is what's keeping you from recognising what you already are.

You could spend another decade chasing the next breakthrough, the next teacher, the next method, growing more spiritually exhausted and further from the freedom you crave.

But what if I told you there's one question that exposes a hidden pattern from childhood so clearly that the entire seeking game collapses in an instant? What if the freedom you've been desperately searching for has been waiting for something that you can give to yourself?
 
There's something your mind doesn't want you to discover about why you started seeking in the first place. Once you see it, everything changes.

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Websites
http://ilonaciunaite.com
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Transcript

Welcome to the show! This is episode 99 
discover the hidden childhood pattern that drives your endless seeking

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and a co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are going through the process of awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 13 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life.

In this group meeting session, I will share something that you don't normally hear about. there is a hidden tendency that drives seeking and becoming aware of an old childhood tendency can make a whole difference for you. as you feel that you are so close to awakening but something keeps pulling you back and makes you feels stuck is one question. Ask that question yourself and see what gets revealed.

 as I talked to so many people to so many seekers from all over the world for so many years there are patterns there are things that are in common and I want to address today one specific thing which is not very much talked about and it may sound a little bit unusual but it's the permission

even if when I say word permission it's like what is that it's the permission to end seeking to enjoy life to be free

to end the search to stop looking for something that is not out there and start seeing what is here and that that may sound a little bit like huh but look at that when we were kids little kids we want a candy mom says "Yeah you can have a candy." Or "No you cannot." Oh want a a little toy and dad says "No you cannot have it." Or yes you can have it it's kind of in ingrained that need for permission from very early days and we forget about it you know we don't ask moms and dads permission for a candy anymore but deeply inside there is a place that is still waiting for permission to to be happy and I find that quite often actually that here's here's the here's the red pill would you take it would you say okay enough of seeking you can live your life and be happy but then there is this fear that arises suddenly that says but what about my parents wouldn't that mean that I leave them behind or wouldn't that mean that um somehow they they forgotten i cannot be happy because they cannot be happy so this is some some kind of weird phenomena but it's it's real it's true it's happening you can check for yourself if I ask that question

can you enjoy your life can you be free can you have fun

is it like a big massive yes or there is uh-oh I cannot have it i'm not allowed there is something in there that is

simply not wanting that because it means leaving something behind

i invite to give yourself permission and see what happens and it's something that is so simple overlooked but it's just so powerful at the same time so you can just ask yourself in this moment do I need a permission to be happy do I need anyone's permission to enjoy my life

just for yourself just so you know maybe you do maybe you don't but at least you know

cuz a lot of times people enter this seeking or the quest for awakening to find the happy ever after the problem with seeking is that it never ends it's not designed to end it's not meant to end because what if you can be really happy what then

what if you can be really happy right now that you can just put all that seeking all these books on the side and enjoy and have a cup of tea and not think about what is the self no self what's this awakening somewhere why is it not happening to me just drinking tea

[Music]

so I want to hear from you guys now does that make sense is it something in you that h permission can I give it to myself cuz nobody else is going to come and give you that permission you don't need my permission or your mom's or dad's or anyone else's permission it's kind of giving that per permission to yourself if if it's needed and just in case it's needed just in case it's unconscious and you don't even know it's needed can just say okay I give permission to myself to enjoy my life be happy have fun enjoy freedom give myself permission to end the endless seeking

Can I say that yeah uh when we had the uh the session earlier this week um and I was talking about a gray black shadow that came up once I was asked you know that he was protecting me mhm and that automatically linked straight away to the idea of permission because at first I thought permission who is releasing who is letting go what is the thing that is doing this or being this you know what you know that's a deeper question I suppose but as far as uh because I've just lost my mother about 3 months ago Um I said to you that she would want me to take this opportunity to progress spiritually and which is a beautiful thing it really is but at the same time a part of me is like oh it's like even though she's gone I'm like sort of still like sort of don't know if I've got permission from either myself or from the idea of my mother that I would want to leave her does that make any sense yes even though she's gone because that adds a that adds a adds an extra dimension to it cuz she's passed away but do you know so I think a certain permission and that might extend to the my alive brothers and sisters and anybody else and while all the literature I've read and all the people I've come across have been um

I've gathered the information and realized that you don't leave them behind mind in fact if anything you get closer to them because you're all one with them it's still something that's a barrier so um Yeah i think that that just about covers it yeah exactly exactly what you said yeah it feels like if I'm progressing if I'm setting myself free then these people left behind are going to be suffering still and I'm not with him anymore and this this is a hidden loyalty that yes we are loyal to the family loyal to the culture of the family to their belief systems and behaviors and emotional tone yes there is that loyalty but when it comes to loyalty it can also be mistaken because the loyalty has to be here to my experience first of all because if you think does your mother or father want you to suffer do they truly want you to be miserable because they are or do they want the best for you absolutely and that's why you know it seems odd that you know I know for a fact that mother would want that even though she couldn't speak for the last 3 4 months uh you know it was just like you knew so it's just obviously it's not to do with anything else but me and my or my ego's attitude of it you know my attachment to that it's nothing to do with them really yes it's nothing to do with them and they are not going to give any permission they're not going to say "Okay I set you free you can enjoy your life it's not their job." [Music] Then the good news is it's our own job so if I need a permission I can give it to myself just in case I need it

and it's so simple is just saying whatever you need permission for out loud three times

and by doing that you can see how your system responds how your system either your voice gets like really quiet and you can't can't even say these words and you can see that and with each repetition you can see how your voice is getting stronger and maybe oh some new new energy is coming in or something is changing even while you speak it

so let's just for the sake of experiment just for the sake of experiment as your microphones are muted you can just think of where do you need a permission and just give it to yourself right now cuz why wait what's the point of waiting it's not coming from out there

so here we go we can all just say whatever permission you need

i'm giving myself permission to adjust the light cuz it keeps flickering now

it did look like you were conducting a seance for a minute [Music] i gave myself permission to adjust the light

please when

just unmute your microphone yeah I'm here mhm good to meet you i just discovered your videos recently but I've been on the spiritual path for very very long let's put it that way and I've al I've already had the recognition that the only problem really is resistance to your feelings basically

and I uh but I still have yeah I have this topic of still I'm not feeling good enough of feeling uh ugly actually and uh for that reason for years I lived as a digital nomad and I kind of really enjoyed it and now I'm stuck in my hometown actually in a free flat that my parents gave me but I kind of hate it here and I really want to leave and but I don't do it and then my mind goes again like h you're getting too old for this you have to stay here this is safe you know it's like a free flat don't have to pay anything and uh yeah that what that's what what I want to say right now well thank you so much for sharing so do you need permission to enjoy your life i need my own permission there's something in me that always tells me you are not good enough right how about allowing yourself how about allowing yourself to recognize what you truly are and that which you truly are is not uh a subject of being good enough or not good enough it's way beyond that

so let's ask this question who am I really

i love this question usually it reminds me of this spaciousness

it's funny that I don't care anymore to show myself crying and [ __ ] but like there's such a massive contraction here still and I'm fighting it and okay let's not fight it for now just let it be where is it where is that contraction where is it this area here here yes yes okay can you tell that contraction just look at that energy and tell it i see you acknowledge you are here i am here you're not me you're not mine

i acknowledge you as this contracted energy

and you are allowed you're allowed to be here you're welcome to be here yeah you're welcome you have full permission to be here as you are

oh it feels better I've done already a lot of these sessions also with other people like feeling a feeling stuff

this is just really really charged up I guess somehow right but let's ask this energy one question say you energy contracted energy what do you want the most

want freedom wants freedom okay say I agree I agree

free from and free to express myself and free to do what I want yeah say are you ready now for the pre for the freedom are you ready for the freedom

yes yes and right now yes right now

i would say yes

okay I don't care anymore i have thought too long yes well tell that energy you are already free can do what you want can express the way you want can self adjust self-correct can come back to your natural state natural form natural place natural function whatever feels like home natural comfortable you're already free have full permission to self adjust

whatever you want just feel it now feel it fully don't need to do anything just watch watching it yeah watching it

[Music]

[Music]

i do feel a bit more relaxed now and say mhm how is that energy feeling just check with it

there's I still feel a bit weird I can say but there's bit more clarity I can I could say mhm let's stay with it a little bit longer it's no rush we are here tell it i feel like I feel like I'm taking up much time of the Oh you're very welcome this time is for you give yourself permission to have all the time you need here we go another permission yeah you can take all the time you need there's no rush nowhere to go nothing else to do we are here right now right now

can experience and feel whatever is here as it is

i know there's a voice more or less saying this doesn't feel like myself I'm doing here okay tell it i agree i agree thank you for bringing this up i agree i agree i agree myself yeah I agree

everyone ready now give yourself time and when ready just ask again what am I really

what am I really

[Music]

[Music]

yes

what are you noticing

[Music] you have did a lot of self inquiry so but I try to be um really now be really spontaneous okay let's stop trying let's stop trying it's okay don't have to try anymore done with trying

it's like I always Mhm i always contract back in into the feeling and take myself to be that feeling even though Okay yes let's look at that cuz you see the feeling you know of it yeah you know the feeling is here you're not the feeling are you a feeling no you're not a thought yeah you're not a thought you're not a feeling you're not a sensation you're not this energy here you are here

now when you ask this question again who am I really do you notice a little bit of silence a little bit of openness

i do notice a bit of silence yes that's your answer

that's the answer

yeah but I really think I need to take a step on the outside because for last six months I've only been doing this inquiry and I feel like really have to change my circumstances a little bit oh you don't need to change anything

but change will happen i guess you don't need to change any it all changes by itself okay nice yeah it's all it's all unfolding by itself everything's right

and it's can acknowledge that there's just another way that mind keeps you away from recognizing that stillness okay i see yeah if if I do this then maybe but no it's here now you already exist right

i didn't get that i say you already exist you're already here right

i am yes you are

but I always think I'm this or that i'm not this or not that all right but now let let's ask that question again and zoom in into that tiny opening that silence or that openness piece and take that for the answer this is your answer

[Music] look at it

it's nothing new nothing unusual it's always been here

[Music]

don't need to pour in

yeah I think I I got a little deeper this time more to my true essence

[Music]

endless stories creating endless feelings [Music] yeah that's okay too it can be all can be as it is

[Music]

okay that's enough for me for now I think okay I would say okay

you're welcome yeah i mean somebody else

by the way I like Lithuania really a lot i spent a lot of time there in Kos and also the other Bic states but you live in Maitius now right uh-huh yeah nice okay

hi hi

so would you say that it's more like a good way of looking at it is looking at the peace that is here despite whatever other disturbance is here

can you say again can you ask again um like is a good route to go to notice like when when um the previous caller was asking a question and um and there was a little bit of silence a little bit of peace and you said that's it already that's the answer mhm so is that like a good thing to try and focus on like on the piece rather than any contraction or pain or thoughts or noise um yes exactly cuz this is this is the answer this is what you are looking for but in the moment whatever is here that is here maybe that something that is here needs to be looked at first

mhm it depends if you if you can ask this question who am I really and you can notice that openness that spaciousness peace lightness nothing there are many words for that if you can notice that and be with that that's all it's required but to get to that place sometimes things come up like I am angry i'm annoyed i am frustrated i can't stay here that will need to be met first before the clouds open and you can be in that stillness so it depends depends on the moment

so even if we notice a little little bit of peace but there's a lot of things that are screaming loudly like pain or noise or thoughts or emotions um then it's best to not try and ignore them and just like clink to the peace but rather look at what's screaming for attention yes yes cuz when you ask this question you can ask this question now and just see what what comes in what comes in

what am I freely who am I really

[Music]

there's like an image of spaciousness

and of the space in which everything happens but there's also a screaming of I don't know i don't know like I've asked this and I don't know uhhuh yeah yeah yeah it's very interesting you said it's a um an image of space

it's not the openness spaciousness it's an image of space

is that what you are an image

what the invitation here is to notice that little gap between the thoughts come in that little silence before any thoughts come in

that question is kind of gets the mind to stop for a second or two and you can see it

yeah i guess I was searching for the answer in my mind and um like I know that I'm the space in which everything happens but like I wasn't feeling it i was like going to give you the answer but not what I was feeling the answer to be yeah yeah because the answer it cannot be given in words i mean it's beyond mind it's beyond mind it's in your experience you know it you know that silence it's always been here it's not new it's not unusual it's you know when you close your eyes and you if you don't look at memories you can't even say how old you are what size you are how the body looks what color it is there is just that presence unescribable presence it's beyond words and it's always been here 5-year-old 25 year old 75 year old means nothing to that space it's all about the body about the image but that silent space that beingness is something that doesn't change it's something that doesn't come and go it's always here it's got no qualities but it's known by being

do you recognize what I'm talking about i think I do it's like that silence kind of thing mhm yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i guess for me it's just a few seconds here and there usually and then immediately fear comes in or thoughts Mhm but they come in in that silence everything that comes in in that silence

so it's just a matter of how much attention we put on the piece versus the activity it's a matter of recognition of that peace as what you are

so like when you're talking or not to make it personal but um like are you like half aware of the piece and then half aware of the talking like how does it work like how do we function in life when things arise like we need to talk and move and cook so we can't just sit with our eyes closed and sink into the silence so like how does it kind of Aha okay good point because that silence is not an absence of action words or emotions like a a metaphor or analogy let's say if you go to the to the sea and you go one day and there are lots and lots of waves does that mean that sea is not there no it means that sea is wavy next day you go and the sea is flat there's not a single wave does that mean that sea is not there it's the same sea it's just quiet now so when we think that it's quiet is about no waves or absence of waves but it doesn't matter what is happening it can be very intense emotional mental physical but life is still here that presence is still here that silence is still here like the ocean or the sea is still here with and without waves

so it's not like seeing this peace is knowing

you know seeing is seeing something that comes and goes it's here now it's gone it's here now it's gone waves come and go knowing what is knowing feeling it's not a feeling feeling come and go knowing

like do you know now that you are here

i think so

it's very cute

you know that you are here even to say I think so first you need to know that you're here first you need to be here

like do you know that my hand is moving mhm you know that

how do you know that

cuz I see it yes seeing is knowing yes but how do you know that you just know

you know of hand movie you know of colors you know of experience that knowing is always here so how does that calm me knowing that I'm the sea when the sea is crazy and choppy

you know it will pass you still here you're present

seeing or isness is not coming and going it's not affected by what is happening being just is and what is happening comes and goes stays for a little bit and goes

and that's not what you are you're not that you're not the emotions you're not the mind you're not stories you're not physical you are

But we all know that we exist mhm and that things happen to us but are not us right so what am I missing then we always know that we're here just like say we know it you know what I mean so we all know that we're here and that life can be harder or easier uhhuh so what am I missing i don't know tell me is anything missing peace peace okay right peace is not from the waves peace is with peace is including everything peace is letting everything be as it is peace is to experience whatever is here without trying to push it away including they're trying to push it away peace is letting it all be as it is

so how do I get to a place where I can let it be as it is okay let's start let's go back to permission

what's not allowed what's not allowed to be a citizen

i mean the first thought was everything but let me think um yeah let's see let's see what's not allowed to be as it is right now

tension tension in the body tension hypervigilance like that it doesn't feel free it doesn't feel yummy and relaxed it feels afraid it's okay it can be afraid is it allowed to be afraid no absolutely not this is not fun it's not meant to be fun i mean not all of it not all life is meant to be fun

it's not here to give you pleasure it's scared

don't think that being scared is fun

but it is scared so can it be scared

well I tried to convince it not to it doesn't really work that exactly you see that it doesn't work so letting it be as it is is just acknowledging this is how it is and it's okay

it sounds like you're basically saying like the wisdom of like you know what I've tried this a million times i can't force myself to be at peace um life is just life and like might as well just relax and go along for the ride because there's nothing really else we can do is it that kind of thing yes it's it's a little bit different but pretty much that you see there are things that are happening there are all situations people come in speak and you you are here right stuff is happening externally and then it seems like there is a relationship with what is happening meaning I like it I don't like it it shouldn't be happening it should be more of this not enough of that relationship is what creates the me that is having the experience and having the relationship with experience and that me feels separate it feels uh that it doesn't belong here that there is something wrong with it that needs to be fixed and all kinds of trouble and that's that's the suffering that relationship with what is happening but that thing is imagined it's not even there but that fight with what is is is created by the narrative i don't like it it shouldn't be it shouldn't be happening what's wrong with everything that's a narrative that's a program that has been running in the head effortlessly and without anyone doing it but look at that you are here as the silence as the presence as just being whatever is going on is not asking my permission to be happening it's already here

there's nothing in between

if I understood you in other words things are happening external to me and then they seem to affect my body state my emotions my sensations and the world will offer two types of fixing either magn magnetize or miracle or a course in this a course in that how to change the external reality or fix yourself and change your internal reality and reactivity to the external those are the two paths that mainly you know I try to follow and we're saying like none of those are changeable neither of those are changeable by me so just like relax and let it all happen because neither are actually changeable yes the outside is out of control and that me that is being worked on is not even there what is here it's peace

so it's taking yourself out of that uh wheel of that squirrel you know running wheel that will never end because the outside is out of control it's not in your control and that me is not even there the me sorry the muminous sensations and emotions that I call myself I experience that identification with what I was having the relationship with whatever is happening yes emotions are here thoughts are here physical sensations are here energy is here everything's here the me to which life is happening is not that is imagined the narrative brings that in and it creates that me and then that me is suffering

it feels like it

so it's like when I have an emotion either anger or sadness or frustration or upset about something people will then say well you should do X or Y or Z either fix your external surroundings or why can't you just be at peace and relax like what's wrong with you in other words it's always what's wrong with you change X or Y and you're seeing so are you saying that neither the external things that happen nor the internal things that happen meaning my emotions and thoughts neither of them are me and neither Neither of them are under my control it's the same thing to have an anger as to have a refrigerator noise in other words all of it is not me all of it is just happening and I have zero control yes

and once I don't call the anger me or my responsibility then I'll have a sense of relief let's see because okay because that me is still here it's trying to let go of something it's seeing that there's nobody there and never was

okay I'm not sure what that means so how do I understand that like okay let's ask that question who am I really

who am I really

what am I really

i'm just getting a brain answer the one who sees all of this the one who sees this body who hears this voice who sees my hand moving okay stan who's that what is that what is that sees what is it that sees

where should I look for the answer in the gap between thoughts

i feel myself like slipping into like a kind of sleep or something like a a deep kind of weird state but if I stay present I still feel like like I hear myself and feel myself talking like I still feel this body is me i still feel you know what I'm saying like I can go into some deep state where I'm not identified because I'm just not thinking about the body and the and the room and the noises but when I'm here it's hard to not think oh this is me yeah this me is just a label it's being put on sensations on emotions on the stories it's just that just a label

and on the body and the speaking

and because the mind has been trained and taught to think that way it's a habitual pattern it's a like a code

it's funny but it's I would say it's very accurate like if I say if I put glasses on right if I put glasses on can you tell me is the glass seeing anything is the glass itself seeing anything no of course not no no it's just like a filter through which everything is being seen a filter now if I pull these glasses away whatever is here is still here exactly the same it's just seen without a filter right mhm so this me the narrative is describing everything that is being seen through the filter of me and it seems like this me is seeing everything hearing experiencing feeling having it it becomes alive but it's just a filter like this glass you are here with and without that filter

you mean I'd be here even if this body wasn't no the body is not me the mind is not me the me is the filter and you are here with and without that word with and without that idea

so you're not saying I'd be here even if the body wasn't here you're saying I'd be here even if the thought this is me wasn't here i'm saying that you are here with and without thoughts

there's something here that doesn't change that doesn't come and go

thoughts come and go emotions come and go sensations come and go there's something here that doesn't come and go

okay and I guess the question is so what do I do with that what do I do now like

Mhm yeah that's like what I do now you see immediately this eye arises and wants to fix something or do something or get some benefit

it's just what's happening so literally it's what's happening mhm

it would be like it sorry go ahead it would be like uh the sea suddenly says I'm not the wave i thought I was the wave but what do you do now so continue continue with being you whatever is whatever is your nature is already here you're already free

nothing changes but it's known it's seen differently it's known

and then should I do a practice like when anxiety comes up or stuff comes up should I do something with it or tell myself something

wow yes it's um I would say there are two things going on one thing is to recognize what you are to recognize that silence in your experience and then another thing is what to do with these big waves that keep coming mhm and knowing that I'm not doing that this is the pattern this is the conditioning playing out that's the old program that is playing out and what is needed is your awareness your recognition fully seeing these patterns as they are showing up that they can self adjust again you're not doing it but they self adjust because of your awareness when when when something unconscious becomes conscious it cannot hurt the system consciously like it's all working for the benefit everything here is working for the benefit of the whole system it can only hurt itself when it's unconscious so the job is then becoming conscious becoming aware of what is going on noticing being with what is showing up without trying to fix it because you know it's happening by itself so it's full permission do whatever you do i'm here and it unfolds

whatever needs to come in comes in whatever needs to go goes it's more like "Oh I didn't know i didn't know this was happening." Interesting

that's beautiful so would that be like instead of trying to avoid it by scrolling on my phone and putting on music instead of trying to avoid what's happening to actually look at it would that be a thing to give it the attention what's happening rather than trying to push it away or avoid it subconsciously yes but and even you know when you find yourself scrolling on the phone you notice that uh oh what's going on here it's okay it's okay to scroll on the floor mhm and when you notice that maybe we'll stop maybe you'll scroll a little bit more for 5 minutes not 3 hours

mhm so there's a benefit to putting attention and awareness on things that arise yes absolutely and you know it's so difficult to see what is the closest what is right here in front of your nose this this most difficult to see but it's just like what is here right now what is here right now

i'm here yes I'm here present and this is happening yeah whatever is happening or there is talking happening there is hand moving it's here right now whatever is here right now [Music] oh there is sensation in the throat oh that's here right now okay let's just allow that to be here noticing it yeah it can be

it's like this

and then if you you can notice that sometimes there's something uncomfortable and attention goes into something I don't know distraction we call it distraction right but then you notice that as well and you know that whatever is here is not you you see it you know it

it's not me it's not my fault and I have no control over it so might as well just watch the show yes yes yes let the show be don't try to fix and not go into Yeah not go into fixing or shame or blame or or causation or desperation of trying to solve the outside or the inside just um correct cuz otherwise you're in the in between you're like that fil you identify yourself with a filter with a story within me that is life is happening too but life is just happening in in this presence the waves are happening in the sea

it's the sea that waves it's life that is expressing us this situation there's nobody in between no middleman

and the reason to put attention and awareness on waves is because that'll be bring a calming to the suffering

yes it's kind of um let's say something is tight and uncomfortable some tight energy right all it needs is your attention to start opening maybe moving different places maybe expanding maybe contracting more but it starts doing something because of your attention and that's what's needed your attention mhm okay thank you so much you're so very welcome thank you for all your questions i'm sure it's very helpful for many people thank you i appreciate that

yeah hi again okay please oh yeah um yeah um I had a little like so I don't know if I told you this in the in the only session that we've had but there was a in the way that time and space are aspects of the dual existence that it's time is very emphasized in popular literature around self-help as in you can't jump forward you can't jump backwards there is only here and there is only now and anything else is a thought so um I listened to a guy on YouTube and he uh did the parallel thing with space so he said you can see that over there and you can go there and you will still be here

mhm just in the same way but you can't jump over there just as the way we can't jump into the future and you can't jump into the past because there isn't one so um you're always here and uh no matter where you are so that to me personally gave me another like sort of I'm not going to say piece of the puzzle because that's a very like sort of you know it's not a puzzle to be solved because it's more like unsolved isn't it however um it's like it just gave me another a deepening of the reality that I am actually in and smeared it just took a little bit more grime off the window of conditioning mhm so um that that really helped me deepen my realization of what is actually real if that makes sense so um

that was quite profound and I just wondered because I didn't want to be you know apparently men have like sort of things around space you know and take to space more as a as a filter as a way of processing the world i don't know whether it's true or not but that really that really helped me so that was great and then um so I just use it in my everyday practice now it's as though the it's as though the world moves your body moves your thoughts move your emotions move or whatever and I just realize that I'm here so if I walk over there to the park then it's not actually me walking to the park it's the world moving if you like

the world moving or the illusion moving while I'm staying still but I know that that's not strictly true because it's like sort of Well it depends what you call that makes sense yeah it makes sense it depends what you call I if you call I and you point to your body it's not it yeah it's that stillness that openness the vastness the presence here now being existence God words words words words but they point to something not the body not the mind

that doesn't move

and so I find it easy to assign to things as far as like sort of the body's concern is a little bit tougher and a little bit tougher with the emotions and the thoughts that whole thing but for me to to to realize that you know what is here is here but is also not at the same time but what is what is here is here but it exists in a different way to what I thought it had yes yeah yeah yes i like to work with two definitions of what is real one is what is real is the actuality of this moment whatever is here right now the sensations the sounds now this is reality of the moment this is real i mean I can touch this i don't need to imagine it so on this level reality is that which is not imagined and it's here right now this is reality of the moment it's not imagined this room is here the way it is it's not a beach it's not a mountain it's this room i can't argue with that i can imagine something else but what is is in this moment right and the deeper definition of what is real is that which does not change

so you can work with two levels the relative the present moment of this and the absolute that which does not change

really that which changes is the absolute anyway as well yes it's all that but then when you look

when you look at that the past is an image in the mind the future is an image in the mind it has energetic element you can have a feeling about the past you can have a feeling about the future

but it's now i mean where's the past if you don't think about it is it like a some kind of container somewhere with all the past memories

it comes in and it's now

I suppose that's why the witness phase if you want to call it a phase it's like sort of so valuable because you're watching things come up and it's as though you're allowing the your conditioning to uh and the things that made you act reactively in the present just go away and just like sort of flush down flush down flush down uh as you witness them though until you get to a point I presume in which you realize that you're actually awake and all the conditioning's gone down the drain and that's it there's just this is that right

the happy ever ending happy ever after

you know what's funny let's say have you ever played a computer game where you're like some kind of a hero and then you go and beat monsters or whatever yeah you played the computer game the first level is very easy like you go you It's actually difficult cuz you only have very um basic equipment and you have to beat the zombies let's say and they are pretty easy to beat that you are just starting right the next level you get level up you get more experience you get a new new equipment your zombies are getting stronger too and then you pass that level and then you go on another level and another level which each level the zombies are becoming stronger your equipment your defense is getting better right now playing this kind of game is the how to say goal not to have any monsters coming up at you now you got all the equipment no no it's not so there are challenges and the challenges are bigger but there is also confidence there is also experience and you know how to beat them yeah and this is where the ego comes in isn't it like sort of lack of cuz there's a lot of talk about ego annihilation and things like that whereas you really like sort of in this at least in this realm if you like or in the computer game realm or whatever you want to call it is yeah it's good to have that ego but you can just observe it rather than identify with it yeah and you don't need to expect that suddenly the big boss at the end of the level is not going show to show up because you're so good now bring it on come i actually played a a computer game the other week in which you started a game and it was like an old 8 bit game you know like sort of Doom and something like that and then uh you you were playing it for a certain amount of time for 10 minutes and then you hear a voice and the it pulls out and it's your sister talking to you and saying get off that game do you know what I mean and then you go and play another game so I was thinking okay let's go back this is me i'm playing a game but I'm also going if you go back another level I'm playing a game it's like it's virtual reality another step uh so you know it could go on and on but it's just like yeah um so as far as realizing it's concerned you know I think the practice that you showed me a few days ago is great as in like sort of things come up and just to say you know what's blocking this what's blocking that and getting triggers with certain relationships and things like that and those triggers are so so valuable mhm yeah they bring self-awareness and that's like okay fair enough i'm a pretty short guy so it's just like sort of I'm seeing somebody who's over six foot at the moment so there's a trigger there and I'm like sort of but okay be with it we're on a level mindwise so why not you know so yeah yeah it's very very interesting when um when you can recognize that everything what you what you need is here that's it you don't need to go look for it it's not in the books it's not in some somebody else's descriptions of how life is for them it's in your experience whatever you need to see comes in whatever needs to leave leaves whatever needs to be examined closer or dive deeper it's here it's all given so it's it's more like I'm here i had a real hand up about the intellect intellectualization of all this and somebody said allow the intellectualization of all this i'm like "Oh right okay yeah that's fair enough but just as long as you don't identify with it." Yeah yeah but when you know what you are you know your beingness you know that stillness the presence that is always here everything else can come and go it will still keep comes and goes there are storms there is sunshine the weather changes it's natural that's nature but it's all welcome

it's all okay even like really tough situations and very deep emotional pain is okay it's all safe

i realize that you know there's a great big M-shaped hole there but you know in the emptiness like I said that's where it actually that's where the real life is mhm you know anybody who you know anybody I think anybody if you like something about anybody it's not necessarily the personality these are great things that might resonate with your normal self with as in what you would call normal as in you know everyday ongoing dual normal but the essence of them is what you what you're what you're really attracted to so that and that and that never goes so there you are so interesting thank you thank you

i appreciate it

and now our meeting is coming to the end

and we can do this again next month i don't remember which date but it's a third Thursday of the month

and in between can play with that permission thing just whatever you need it

and it will be very interesting to see what shifts because of that

my cats are fighting again

so cute

yeah and if you like if you never met me for a session before I offer 30 minutes free consultation we can look at where you are and if you feel stuck a little bit can just get unstuck feel free to use that and thank you everyone for coming it's great to be with you and I'll see you soon okay thank you bye for now