The Illusion of Self: A Direct Guide to Awakening

Need help with seeing through the illusion of self? Go here 👉 https://bit.ly/4oY0ztV

What if “I understand this intellectually” is the very thought keeping you from seeing reality as it is?

In this nonduality dialogue, we look directly into experience to explore the illusion of a separate self, the trap of expectations, and the deeper longing for truth that cannot be satisfied by concepts.

Through raw honesty and direct inquiry, we uncover:
📌 Why intellectual understanding is not the same as seeing
📌 How the mind creates the illusion of “me”
📌 The role of expectations in keeping seeking alive
📌 What remains when thought is set aside and longing is met directly

🌿 This is not about belief, it’s about looking into your own lived experience.

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DISCLAIMER
This video is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical or psychological care.  If persistent pain or anxiety affects your daily life, please consult a qualified health provider.

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Transcript

You are listening to 
awakening now podcast. This is episode number 106
The Illusion of Self: A Direct Guide to Awakening

My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide, an author, and co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community. If you are going through the process of awakening, this podcast is for you. Over the past 14 years, I’ve been guiding and supporting seekers on their journeys to discover inner peace and freedom.

In this podcast, I dive deep into the heart of awakening. Together with my guests, we explore the pivotal moments that spark transformation, what life looks like before and after the shift, and how to navigate the challenges and beauty of living an awakened life.



What if the “self” you’ve believed in your whole life is just an illusion? 

In this deep nonduality dialogue, we explore the nature of experience, the illusion of control, and what it truly means to see through the false idea of “me.”

Through real-time inquiry and raw honesty, we uncover:
📌Why the sense of self is imagined
📌How thoughts and contractions arise without a doer
📌The difference between experience and imagination
📌What remains when the “I” story dissolvesI get this intellectually but I do not see it in my experience. And this is a very interesting place to be because the experience is always here. Whatever is here is always here. It's it's just experience. There's nothing magical going on. But the mind creates this idea that I don't see it. Like what else is here to see? It's just what is happening right now. Just this. There's nothing else to see. But the mind says, I understand this intellectually. What does that even mean to understand this intellectually? It's like having an idea of what this is. But the idea is never never the actual experience. It's never reality. It's just some idea about what this is. So maybe the mind doesn't understand it intellectually. It just thinks it does and then it's trying to figure out how this experience is fitting to this imagination of what this is. What does that even mean? I understand this intellectually life, the universe, the cosmic laws. I don't know how this is the separate self. I understand this intellectually there is no separate self but I don't see this in experience. Come on. But what is what is in experience? What actually is an experience? It's just what's happening now. These sounds, sensations, smell, can smell the liies.

There's this moment here, there's being here.

And when you just stop and look, there's nothing to understand here.

So it's so easy to get trapped in these ideas that there is something to get or something to understand or something to see through. But the illusion is that there is something when in experience there's nothing like it.

So for the mind that is looking to see through self illusion means like there is something to see through there is some kind of wall or some kind of barrier or some kind of insight or some realization or event experience has to happen for me to be able to say oh now I see it in experience but you can look in experience right now there's no effort it's here.

And you may you may hear the but but but but what about me? What about this separate individual, this person or this identity? What's about me? But that is not inexperience. That's conceptual. That's an idea about something that supposedly is here and supposedly is here to awaken.

So the bad news is there is no eye to awaken. There's no separate self that can see through the separate self.

It's just this.

What's already here always been this experience knowing of experience.

So the better question would be to ask what is here minus the mind minus the stories minus the complaints about that I don't see it or you should be different what is here besides the movement of thoughts and images like right here right now

is anything missing

Does this fit the imagination? Does it need to?

And to be honest with on this journey, on this seeking, finding, exploring journey, the biggest obstacle of all is expectations. And we can call expectations in different words also like hoping or

imagining what it's like. Expectation is an image in mind that says, "Oh, it should be like this or when I when I see it like that, then this happens or then I can be free or then I can finally relax. It's like the mind draws an image and says this is how it should be and now let's fit the reality into this image and just compare it like what's reality what's the image what's reality what's the image oh the reality doesn't fit my image thereof the reality is wrong but the image is right yeah I read it somebody said that this is how it should be doesn't fit my experience is not like that thereof my experience is wrong but the image the precious image is the correct that's what's happening.

And here's a funny thing. If I say now that the search can be over right now, all this seeking, all this trying to understand can end right now.

What's required is willingness to let this go. Willingness unreadiness to face it that there's nothing nothing to find other than what is always here. What is always here? It's always been here.

And you may notice if there is any tension coming up with that or fear coming up or oh no, there must be something. Oh no, that's nonsense. can notice what your system is doing with this. Like, yeah, the search can end now. Like, why do you need to look for something that doesn't exist? Or why do you need to look for awakening for some imagined entity that doesn't exist? You don't. It's completely optional. doesn't make you a better person or special one or um you know some higher morally or I don't know whatever the mind is imagining that the seeking is good for

and yet underneath all that underneath all that seeking there is longing for truth longing to know what I truly um longing for peace, longing for love, a deep longing that is not coming from the mind which says I understand it intellectually. It's something so much deeper and so much more profound and true and real and vivid and it's it's coming from here and this is what brings you here because that longing wants to be met.

So let's just put the mind on the side for a little bit and just okay mind let's agree you don't know how this should be or how it will be or it will be at all. You don't know. So yeah let's take a little rest little pause and let's take a look at the longing and see what's there. Something is calling from within. From deep, deep within, saying, "Follow me. Take a look. Meet me.

And if you can meet that longing and be with it and open up to it,

you may start noticing something is opening up.

And some emotions may be coming up.

And just check for yourself what's going on in the system right now.

And there may be many things going on. It's all okay. It's all okay. Fear is here is okay. Doubt is okay. And everything's okay. And confusion is okay. She's just noticing what's going on.

And do you feel that longing calling somewhere?

And do you feel that you do not need to run away from it or hide from it or dismiss it? It's real. It's calling

like a tiny little wave that comes in and says, "Follow me. Follow me."

And let's stay with that wave for open. Follow it. Ask it. Take me where you want me to go. Show me what you want me to see.

I'm ready.

Thank you for taking this little journey with me.

And now it's time to hear from you. Because we may be hearing these words over and over again from many different places, but it always comes down to an individual and everyone's situation and everyone's mind is unique. So it's just a matter to entangle that unique knot so that whatever is always here it becomes so obvious that there is no moreSo, whoever would like to go first can either raise your hand or just unmute your microphone. by the way.

And now we can talk.

Okay, I go first then. Hey. Yes, please. Nobody else. Uh,

what can I say? I feel a bit weird with the headphones on to be honest. Maybe only one better. Yeah, I get this intellectually, but I do not see it in my experience. And this is a very interesting place to be because the experience is always here. Whatever is here is always here. It's it's just experience. There's nothing magical going on. But the mind creates this idea that I don't see it. Like what else is here to see? It's just what is happening right now. Just this. There's nothing else to see. But the mind says, I understand this intellectually. What does that even mean to understand this intellectually? It's like having an idea of what this is, but the idea is never never the actual experience. It's never reality. It's just some idea about what this is. So maybe the mind doesn't understand it intellectually. It just thinks it does and then it's trying to figure out how this experience is fitting to this imagination of what this is. What does that even mean? I understand this intellectually. Life, the universe, the cosmic laws. I don't know how this is the separate self. I understand this intellectually. There is no separate self. But I don't see this in experience. Come on. But what is what is an experience? What actually is an experience? It's just what's happening now. these sounds, sensations, smell, can smell the lilies.

There's this moment here. There's being here.

And when you just stop and look, there's nothing to understand here.

So it's so easy to get trapped in these ideas that there is something to get or something to understand or something to see through. But the illusion is that there is something when in experience there's nothing like it.

So for the mind that is looking to see through self illusion means like there is something to see through there is some kind of wall or some kind of barrier or some kind of insight or some realization or event experience has to happen for me to be able to say oh now I see it in experience but you can look in experience right now there's no effort it's here.

And you may you may hear the but but but but what about me? What about this separate individual, this person or this identity? What's about me? But that is not inexperience. That's conceptual. That's an idea about something that supposedly is here and supposedly is here to awaken.

So the bad news is there is no eye to awaken. There's no separate self that can see through the separate self.

It's just this

what's already here always been this experience knowing of experience.

So the better question would be to ask what is here minus the mind minus the stories minus the complaints about that I don't see it or you should be different what is here besides the movement of thoughts and images like right here right now

is anything missing

Does this fit the imagination? Does it need to?

And to be honest with on this journey, on this seeking, finding, exploring journey, the biggest obstacle of all is expectations. And we can call expectations in different words also like hoping or

imagining what it's like. Expectation is an image in mind that says oh it should be like this or when I when I see it like that then this happens or then I can be free or then I can finally relax. It's like the mind draws an image and says this is how it should be and now let's fit the reality into this image and just compare it like what's reality what's the image what's reality what's the image oh the reality doesn't fit my image thereof the reality is wrong but the image is right yeah I read it somebody said that this is how it should be doesn't fit my experience is not like that thereof my experience is wrong but the image the precious image is the correct that's what's happening.

And here's a funny thing. If I say now that the search can be over right now, all this seeking, all this trying to understand can end right now.

What's required is willingness to let this go. Willingness unreadiness to face it. That there's nothing nothing to find other than what is always here. What is always here? It's always been here.

And you may notice if there is any tension coming up with that or fear coming up or oh no, there must be something. Oh no, that's nonsense. can notice what your system is doing with this. Like, yeah, the search can end now. Like, why do you need to look for something that doesn't exist? Or why do you need to look for awakening for some imagined entity that doesn't exist? You don't. It's completely optional. doesn't make you a better person or special one or um you know some higher morally or I don't know whatever the mind is imagining that the seeking is good for

and yet underneath all that underneath all that seeking there is longing for truth longing to know what I truly um longing for peace, longing for love, that deep longing that is not coming from the mind which says I understand it intellectually. It's something so much deeper and so much more profound and true and real and vivid and it's it's coming from here and this is what brings you here because that longing wants to be met.

So let's just put the mind on the side for a little bit and just okay mind let's agree you don't know how this should be or how it will be or if it will be at all. You don't know. So yeah let's take a little rest little pause and let's take a look at the longing and see what's there. Something is calling from within. From deep, deep within. Saying, "Follow me. Take a look. Meet me.

And if you can meet that longing and be with it and open up to it,

you may start noticing something is opening up.

And some emotions may be coming up.

And just check for yourself what's going on in the system right now.

And there may be many things going on. It's all okay. It's all okay. Fear is here is okay. Doubt is okay. And everything's okay. And confusion is okay. She's just noticing what's going on.

And do you feel that longing calling somewhere?

And do you feel that you do not need to run away from it or hide from it or dismiss it? It's real. It's calling

like a tiny little wave that comes in and says, "Follow me. Follow me."

And let's stay with that wave for a little bit. Follow it. Ask it. Take me where you want me to go. Show me what you want me to see.

I'm ready.

Well, uh, yeah. I went on this trip and I said to myself, I I want to live now. I don't care. I spend all my money if I need to. And it feels good. Wow. Nice and I spent a lot of money actually. This radio is also quite expensive in high season but it's a nice uh view here. So like show I do feel a bit uh strange still. Yeah.

Uh,

I uh I don't even have a question really. Oh, that's sweet. I I guess I'm I'm still fighting a bit with this feeling uh my main topic, my main uh issue like not good enough, feeling ugly, feeling getting too old or whatever for adventure and travel or whatever. Okay. But you since you're here just looking at the lake, just looking at this beautiful nature doesn't matter.

Maybe it matters to other people, not to me really. I feel quite good. Right. So it only matters when you're sitting and thinking about it. But when you are in the moment doing whatever you are doing

like what is that non-existent non-existent me that is feeling ugly or is feeling not enough? What is that?

Well, not really not enough but maybe too much really. It's like too much still. Yeah. Still a bit of this contraction. I kind of Mhm. keep fighting even though I know the part of me I created myself somehow. How did you do that? How did you create it? Do I create it with fearful thought? Don't know what to do with my life. Even though I now say [ __ ] it. Apparently, life wants me to uh travel around and not be like your 9 to5 type of guy.

Yeah. What if you didn't create it? It just came up. Yeah. I created with a story of like I'm I'm wrong somehow. I should should be different. Okay. So, why would you create this? like what's what's the benefit of that creating this?

Yeah. Well, live kind of an extreme lifestyle compared to the majority of the population. At least I think that. Mhm.

Yeah. A bit of fear. Well, yeah. I think people judge me for it or something. Yeah. So like post societal conditioning I guess you have to work hard you know can't just enjoy your life can't just have fun oh wow that's very old story that's very old story but is that true you have to work hard and you cannot enjoy your life is that your experience

kind of has been my experience in a way I don't No, not not that I have uh labored very hard or something, but

I even had to work to have fun. That was my impression. I'm always like trying to control life and uh Okay, that's a kind of a different topic now. But Mhm.

the ego, this this the separate self that wants wants to claim control and uh doesn't really trust that the universe is always right.

It's already gotten got gotten a little better.

Well, I asked you why why are you creating this? Because you're not creating this. I'm sorry I'm a bit of all over the place. I I know I I it's I've been going through a lot of processes like with waking up at night and having panic and being disoriented and coming back to being aware. Mhm. But okay, let's go just to the basics. I have I don't feel really uh I have a bit Yeah. I create this contraction. Okay. Yeah. How How do you do that? That's why I want to get you doing it. You are not doing it. No, you're not doing it. Cuz if you're doing it, why would why would you do it? But who But who else is doing it? It's not Oh, there's nobody else who can do it. Yes. There's nobody doing it. Yes. There's nobody doing it. Yeah. Well, that's linguistics, you know. Yes. I had some I had some other teacher tell me you're creating your feeling. Um and that that also you know what I mean like in some way you are doing it then but nobody's doing it. All right. If you are looking now at the nature and you can see the lake here and stuff and maybe trees. Mhm. What's doing all that? Are you doing it? No, I'm not doing that. How do you know that you're not doing it? like swinging the trees or making waves on the lake. How do you know that you are not doing it?

Well, uh

how do I know I'm not doing it? Uh good question actually. Uh as if I would say no, you are doing it. Here you go. You you are moving the trees and making the waves and that bird that passed by it's you are doing it. Would you believe me

when is not doing it but uh I could be doing it that that uh something like that. Yeah. But if you can trust your experience and you see are you doing it or not? No. I observe this tree and the wind. I can feel it. I perceive it. Right. I perceive it. I don't do it. Exactly. That's the point. All these stories, all these emotions is also like that wind. You perceive it, you see it. You're not doing it.

your thoughts. Yeah. Do you create your thoughts or do they just arise? They seem to be just arising. Yeah.

Yeah. And then something comes in and says, "I did that. Look at me. I'm bad because I'm creating this horrible experience for myself. It's my fault.

There's something wrong with me. Yeah, if you look for the one who's deciding it and doing it, you can't find any entity really

just feels like it. You just find a contraction or something. Yeah. Take that contraction to be you. It's usually basically a feeling of lack something is missing. Yeah. You know what that contraction is? It's saying that thought is a lie.

The contraction doesn't say yes that something is missing. It's saying oh that thought is a lie. I'm already mature enough to know that I'm not missing like money or relationships but uh love basically

loving and being loved.

doesn't seem to be there completely.

So yeah, we are noticing what is here, what is showing up, noticing, perceiving, receiving.

Yeah, we're going around in a circle again. I come back to the slightly unpleasant emotion. All right. Yes, you can see that it it comes in by itself. I'm not doing it.

Then comes some images like oh if I would experience this or that and

that experience come and go. So I can't really bring something permanent about

Yeah, it's okay to relax because hands off hands off. Yes, the steering steering wheel is imagined anyway. It's a self-driving car already. Yes. Like look in nature. There is no driver in the nature like you're right there in the middle of it. Yeah, it's funny how this happened. Even that I'm a showless kind of you know that wasn't under my control really. Vio was too expensive. Couldn't find accommodation and then I wanted to go to Ceda wanted to book something and the minute I decided to click it was taken off was booked by somebody else. Then I came here right.

Yeah, I guess I don't know. I think that maybe maybe enough for me today.

I just be I just be with my feelings and yes, I noticed that you are not doing them like there's nobody doing them like there's nobody blowing the wind.

Well,

until the next time maybe then. Okay. Enjoy your stay. Enjoy the view one more time. Yes. Enjoy the view. Oh, wow. Cool. The iron fox. The iron fox.

Beautiful. Thank you, SW.

My little cat is exploring lilies.

Oh, three of them now.

Okay. Where who else would like to explore?

Hi, Luna. Hi, Dami. Wonderful to hear you. Can't see you, but it's wonderful to hear you. Thank you. It's wonderful to hear you, too. Um, yeah, I guess. Um, hearing you speak to Sven. Um, I was thinking about a small argument or occurrence this morning where I said something to my sister and offered to take my nephew and then he ended up crying and she's like, you know, everything was perfect. We were all great until you came along and um kind of you you caused our life to be miserable. like the subst kind of thing and um it's just a theme that I was away for five days with family so buttons were pressed all around all my stuff was coming up and I was trying to um just survive the waves and also try and have little moments of awareness and try to tell myself a different narrative or explore or something within all the um trying to

just survive the physical stuff of it and the emotional stuff of it and just um all the changing plans and the food and the broken fridge like just taking care of like the human stuff and also the the emotional relationship stuff and also try and grow because I keep on repeating patterns and I'm so fed up with it and fed up with being fed up and yet nothing moves very much. Anyway, um I guess I keep trying to and and the mind goes crazy with it goes crazy. I should use more gentle words. The mind wonders which directions to explore and how to move forward and is it on a human level that needs to be done or is it on a realization level and all this kind of stuff and is it psychological and do I just need someone who's excellent at analyzing and diagnosing or is it something you know the mind will go in a million different ways. Uh Mhm. How about just just giving mind a hug? It's the mind is going all different ways. Just maybe it needs a little gentle. I love you mind. You're okay.

That doesn't stop him. He's like but but but but listen but listen. But just listen and maybe we could solve it. But no, no, no. Just listen to one more thing. And um that's what the mind just keeps saying but I was wondering anyway when you were talking to Sven then I guess it came to me of like maybe there is no resolution of like how to be better so I elicit better things from them how to like that's usually my thought like kind of what's wrong like why do they behave that way in anger but mainly taking it on myself of what am I doing to elicit this like clearly if I was a different person they didn't say this and I'm somehow causing And I don't know, hearing you talk about it's all just happening. Um, it kind of seems like I do elicit that behavior because she she would say different things I think to different people. Although anyway, it's all a little bit confused in my mind of like, do I need to work on solving it on a human level? Is it okay if I do that? And also maybe just watch that all happen of like she says that I get insulted, I blame myself, then some other thoughts kick in, then I go have breakfast, then I feel sad for a while, then I'm like, well, maybe that's not true and maybe that's her. Like, in other words, maybe it's all just happening. curse words and my reactions and everything is just coming up and maybe I don't need to go into some either deep meditation or deep psychological evaluation. Maybe I don't need to solve it on the human level and just keep on being aware and watching the patterns, watching the suffering arise and the the the body and mind will learn just from the because I always feel I have been present my whole life my whole life and watching everything and yet maybe it just takes time for my psyche to learn and I just have to accept that that I feel so stupid and so idiotic. come like you're so aware, you're so intelligent, you're so well read, you're so well studied, and yet here you are in the mire and the muck of these crazy emotions and crazy patterns. But maybe like and and who is that mind talking to itself or me who's listening to it, right? You say me who's listening who's listening who's listening to this talk the same one who's listening to me talk now and to you talk. I I don't know how to answer that better. Yeah. Let's take a good look here. What's going on here? Because the mind is talking and it's talking. You you you done this. You are bad. You do you. What is this you that the mind is referring to?

The listener, the hearer of the thoughts, right? That's me. Okay. Okay. So, who's listening?

Where is that hearer of the thought?

I don't know. Right now, there's me opening my eyes wide and looking around the room trying to answer. I don't know. What if it's not even there? It's just mind talking to itself, creating all these different characters in the prey.

You're saying there's something called mind that is hearing it. But but who is me talking to you now? And who is me hearing all of this? It's not me at all. There are there are words coming out. Mhm. There's hearing the words. There are words coming out in response. Mhm. The me is added on experience and it's imagined.

And when it's imagined and it's forgotten that it's imagined, then it becomes serious and then then there's something to talk with or tell stuff that you're bad. But what becomes serious? What is that thing that you're saying becomes serious and can release? That must be the me. In other words, there is no me. It's just a looped up pattern of thought that says that there is a mei and this mi is bad and this me should fix itself and this me doesn't know how to fix itself and just talking the the stream of your thoughts is there saying that you are bad you should do something you have to fix it you see but it's the mind talking to itself it's just talking literally like a radio is talking in the kitchen when you're not there. She's talking. But who knows that it's me. The one who's talking to you is hearing you and hearing me and hearing the mind. No, no, that's added on.

Now watch very very closely.

What do you do to hear these words? How do you hear these words? Is there a hearer of words? Well, I squint my eyes and I bring the phone close and I listen carefully. That's my experience. Does that help? It seems to focus the mind. Yeah. But does that squint or the trying is what you are?

Is that the listener? It seems it it seems to be because otherwise the mind is unfocused. It's very like ADHD or brain foggy and like I'm like doing the laundry and then if I want to focus on this I have to like wait what is happening? Wait, come on. Focus like this. I have to like squint and my body like tenses and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the tension is not what you are. It's not you. It's just tension. It's not me. It's not the imagined me. The tension is not me. So this little body here like squinting and trying to listen, that's not me. No, it's sensations. Weird. It's sensations.

Notice

when the thoughts come in and start saying crap about you, about you. What What is that that you?

Of course, the body contracts and it's like unpleasant. It's get me out of here. It's more story. But that contraction is not what you are. It's how this system responds to nonsensical thoughts.

But I created neither the nonsensical thoughts nor the reaction to them. No, you didn't create me. It's all in the mind. Look, if you didn't know the language, if you were like little baby that just got born and have no idea about any words, me or I, or any language. Mhm. The experience would still be here. Correct. Color, sounds, wanting to eat. Yes. And there is no me there. But when we learn the language, the word me, I that we learned that this word I, want, me or me gets you something. And then that word became the center of experience and everything is around me. And this me started to be built up. But nobody ever checked if that me is real. So the thought pattern that this body and this thought stream is under quote my control and I can change them and they're my responsibility. You think that's total nonsense? Well, see what's what it's like in your experience. How does that work in experience? Wow.

Elona, you are wild. Hold on, let me think. Um,

so it's all just happening like there's you and appearance of Elona and words are coming out and there's appearance of me and no one's doing anything. It's really we're just clouds all of us. Well, it's happening. Yes. But you don't need to put the label me on any of it.

Because whatever label me goes on, it's not what you are.

So you're coming to do these meetings and then you might have a thought, oh, I'd like to help people, but that's all just happening. It's not actually, you notice afterwards that the mind might say, oh, I want to help people, but this would hap like the happening is That's what happening coming and going. But there's there's no entity in charge of this show. Just think about this. If if you are in charge of your show, of your life, would you create this as it is? Wow. No. I would look so different. So maybe in charge,

but everyone tells you you are in charge. And psychologists will tell you it's resistance and you're being bad and you're just not trying. And there's secondary benefits and gains and it's all you must be evil or resisting or or gaining or something and you're like maybe I am. And then you start to wonder maybe I'm doing this on purpose. Are you? I don't think so, but who knows? They say I am. So I try to look. Okay. But let's trust your experience on this one. You know, whatever people are saying, what if everyone's confused on that one?

I mean, when are we going to trust our own experience

over somebody else? Once there's learned knowledge of how should be. Once there's doubt planted about your motives, the mind takes that and runs with it and says, "Maybe I'm deluding myself. Maybe I'm bad. Maybe I want this like and you say maybe but um yeah let's let's play that game and see where that takes you

what if I'm doing everything but let's see an experience I mean thoughts about experience is not the same as experience so right here right now because you cannot look anywhere else right here right now what are you doing what is not just happening by itself. What are you doing?

I'm sitting holding the phone listening to you trying to understand. How are you sitting? What are you doing to sit? Well, I'm not getting up to stand. So maybe I'm being lazy like Well, it's just happening. The sitting is happening.

Yeah. The words are coming out

breathing even happening and even if there's squinting or trying to understand or a thought I'm trying to understand all of that is again not me overlaying on reality all of that is also happening even the things that seem like I'm trying really hard even the trying really hard is happening Are you sure? Well, I am, but are you? Have a look. Ah, how can I find out? How can I do this? What if you stop imagining that you're doing it and see what would change? I'm going to let my cat out cuz I'm not doing it, but she wants to get out.

I guess it's like so just all these patterns are playing out. She says that then I cry, then I get insulted, then I go to my room, then I go shopping, then I go and do this. I guess it feels right now like you're trying to get me to believe that it's not me doing it. And I'm like, but why would I believe that? How is that belief helpful? You know what I mean? I'm not trying you to get to believe. I'm I'm saying you have to look in your own experience and just see see what is true. I don't want you to believe some nonsense because if you believe it and you don't see it, there's just more believing and that makes more mess in your mind. Well, it's not help. It's not a more helpful belief. Yeah, it it can be a trap. But but what if you stop imagining just for a little bit and see what it's actually going on?

How does that work? I mean the hand is moving. Okay, I can say I am moving the hand. Well, hand is moving. It doesn't matter how I name it. What's happening is is this is happening.

And you don't have a thought I am doing that or I am speaking. I this word I is not doing anything and what we think that I am is some kind of image in the mind

and that image in the mind is like a center figure that is running life and somehow is not doing a very good job and thereof it's bad

but that eye is imagined

Seeing through the self illusion means that seeing that everything is happening by itself not myself itself.

So like this body and sensations and movement and and and words and thoughts and squinting have nothing to do with me. It's that me doesn't even exist.

And what about the fact that my experience is different than someone else's? No one else is in this room with this body.

What about it?

So that means there are different miis having different experiences. So there are no different mi. There's this experience that is here. That's it.

The other thing is imagination.

The exper there's a difference between experience or actuality of what is here in this moment and imagination.

And in imagination, there are lots of kind of different means going on. But in actual experience, that's what we're looking at. an actual experience. There is just this this sitting talking hearing, smelling but I but I see people out the window. So isn't that No, that's your experience of of these little figures passing by

and plus imagination what it's like for them.

So I'm alone in the universe. No, there is nobody here at all. There's only the universe.

Nobody outside of the universe. There's nobody alone in the universe. There's universe showing up as everything. Like the simplest example would be if you go to the ocean and you say see waves there. How many waves are there? You can't count them. It's countless. But now the one wave says oh am I the only wave in the ocean? No. There is ocean one ocean and many many waves. So there's one being one existence one life. and many many many waves in the form of whatever form is here.

But the mind creates this mei that is somehow separate from the existence and is running its own show and apparently it's not doing very good job because it's always blaming itself for doing that job. I thought there was only mine but yeah. Yeah. But it's only in the mind and it's optional. Optional meaning it can be happening. It doesn't have to be happening. Life continues.

The thoughts you mean? Yeah. That when you see that this me is not even there, that it's not real, that it's imagined. Can continue imagining it, but you can never believe that it's you, that what you are.

What can I do right now to see that? While you get here have to look.

There are many ways to look. One one good way is to ask this question. What am I really? What am I really?

I don't know. You got another question? What do you mean you don't know? What's happening when you ask this? You don't know what's happening when you ask this? Oh, no. I know what's happening. But yeah, what's happening when you ask that? Again, it feels like

I'm in here feeling and seeing. I'm feeling the vibrations, feeling the sensations, seeing a soap bottle, seeing a room. I just feel like I'm here in this corner seeing everything and hearing everything.

And what are you really? Yes, there is seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, all that is happening on what are you ask and see what's what's showing up. What am I really? Yeah.

I know. I just started to cry and the word came love. But that just makes no sense. Oh, let's allow that work in

You see the answer is not in words. It's beyond words.

I just seeing that I'm here and things come and go and I'm just here. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

And the trouble here is that it cannot be named. It doesn't need a name. It's got no identity. It's got no description because whatever description comes in, it already creates something that that you are not.

But that silence or stillness or just

A moment a pause, peace, love just for a little tiny moment is revealed and you know that you are. That's it. Even the I am is too much to say. It's just something is is

being knowing.

Yeah. And morning happens and night and getting lost happens and peace happens and go just coming and going and but you are Yeah. not coming or going. Yeah.

I see that there's a lot of getting lost, but um but yeah, if I'm quiet for a minute. Yeah,

I'm from this place. Can you just say your mind thank you mind for all the work you're doing? You I love you so much. You're great mind. I see you. I love you.

It's hard to say that. There's so much suffering there. But you know it's mind that is suffering. All these questions, all these unanswered questions. Mind, I love you. You've put on one hell of a show. Wow. In so many different directions. Wow. Wow. Unbelievable diversity. This has been an explosion. An amazing explosion. It's just Wow.

Fascinating. From a grain of sand to the deepest thoughts just put on one hell of a shelf. Yes. Yes. And creates all this me. Wow. And then pretends that he forgot that it's not real so can have this show.

Ah, and I feel myself getting sucked into the pattern again. Wow. Into the mind, into the me into the this one who's sitting couch. Yeah. But you can always check what's here. What is actually going on here? What am I really? Yeah.

It's like I'm plugging electricity out of the spinning spinning fan. Like unplug it. M Yeah, cuz it feels like I'm being suctioned back in, like sucked back into this tiny one here on the couch. And it is such a pull. It's wild, right? It's the mind thing. It's juicy.

You know, we like entertainment. It's exciting. It's energetic. But I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. Yeah,

maybe not exhausted enough. Maybe there's some energy to get back into the play again. Yeah, you can always take a pause, you know, just remember that you are not what you are when you are what you are good or bad or whatever qualities and labels that just be

the fear again for the Tammy person and all the other people. If I just let it go, what will happen to them? But I guess well you just let go for a few moments and nothing happened to anyone. Look at that. Yeah, it's okay. Well, for five minutes, but you know, that's a big job to control everyone in the universe. Come on.

Yeah. You see the answer is right here, right now.

And when you look, you see it's clear.

Yeah. But I know it's going to disappear and I'm going to get suctioned back in. It's like only because this intense presence and this beautiful gathering that I'm going to get sucked right back in. I feel it. The body's starting to like tense up again. And like I feel the energy hoovering the consciousness back into this and saying it's me. It's me. Here I am. Now go get food of your take. And then you say and who's talking? Who's talking? I don't know. Well, look at that. Who's talking? Is anybody at home?

That sounds mean. That's what you say when someone's stupid. Is anyone home? Is anyone home?

That puts me back in mind again. I start looking in my brain and feeling my head and squinting and thinking that I'm there. But

you are here. You're not in the mind. You are here present. Yeah.

If you look, if you look at this, it's like there's presence, being space, openness, peace. Yeah. Just this. And then there's the mind that comes in, opens up, and starts having all these interactions with its own players that it creates in the mind. But do I have to live as Tammy or can I just live as the awareness in order to function?

Very nice question. Well, you have to find out for yourself

and not by like believing but by looking in experience. Do you have to be anything?

In other words, these identities that we have, it's like a t-shirt. You put it on, you go outside.

But I would never say that I am this t-shirt. Look, it's on it's on my body thereof. It's what I am. I am this t-shirt. It's just that it's something put on for functioning.

So I do get hoovered back in in order to function or I don't have to me and this is Tuesday and I mean it's Thursday but yeah whatever this the mind says that this is me you can always look and see is that true is that what you are attention contraction are you are you contraction are you an image are you a thought or you just are. But does my attention and sensation have to be like this is me and I feel my body and I'm doing stuff or can I just be like free in the body and just be like a global like seeing everything in my awareness like do I have to be focused on Tammy and the body and take care of her? Or do I need to or can I be like just seeing everything that's happening and no more attention on this body mind than on anything else? I don't know. Maybe this is too much like a fantasy that I can just be free of needing to be this. Yes, you can

like I don't have to put pay attention like even when I cross the street in other words you know what I mean like no not in that way no not in that way I mean for this body mind for the organism there are consequences you don't go in front of the bus don't try that so I do need to pay attention I do need to inhabit the tummy and act as the tummy and keep on doing this whole thing. Well, there is there is noticing what is here, seeing what is here and the body is like an instrument which is a condition for all that noticing the seeing, hearing and all the sensations is in the body. So it's not like you don't exist. the I, the me that the mind created as some kind of separate entity in charge that doesn't exist. But all this is here. The sensations are here. But but the but the thing that you're saying, watch, it's all happening without you, without the controller outside of the universe. Yeah. Like like when we talked with Swen, he said, "Look at the nature. How is everything happening in the nature? Is there a manage of the nature?

But I guess in other words, when you're saying I have to be aware when I cross the street and when I cook the food and cut with a knife. So I my attention does need to be sucked down to just this just the knife rather than being global aware of also the people across the street and like I can't just watch whatever I want. I have to do the Tammy thing, right? Yes. Yes. Oh, that's annoying. Why?

It's very ordinary. It's nothing nothing unusual. It's more being present in in the moment because what changes really is that the when this central idea of me being separate from life is seen through as a nonsense you can't believe that again then things change there's a very deep change it may be very subtle and you don't notice it but in a while when you look back h I react acted differently or I didn't think this thought for a while or that is gone now. You kind of don't notice when it's happening but things change. It's the brain is no longer so concerned about this illusion of me to be sustained and to be in a particular way. But I'm still confined to the knife that Tommy is cutting with, to the sister who says this and that. I'm still the awareness and the experience is not mine to choose. In other words, I can't be global. I still am have to watch the show that's presented to the Tammy. You know what? So that's annoying to me. I wanted to get away from the Tammy. I'm not enjoying. Yes, but but this is the character in the show saying that he can get away from the show, but he cannot. Uh, so that's enough. The show continues and you are not the character in the show, but I still have to watch this show of the Tammy. Well, you can watch Ducks in a park if that's helpful. But the Tammy is here. Yeah. Oh, that's so annoying. I was hoping it wouldn't be, but All right. Yes, that's my precious image how it should be. But it's not like it. Yeah. I can I can have peace with Tammy and with the dysfunctional family patterns and with having to cut food and with having to do laundry. All of there there can be peace and joy and and Yeah. and joy or no, it has to be mundane and going through the the feelings of human and all that. Like we don't get to not be human. Yeah. Well, as a space being, you're having a human experience.

But yeah, we are here to have a human experience and it's a very messy messy thing. But I guess we are up for a challenge because we are here.

So what is different? Only that I can go back and remember that I'm just watching this and I'm not this. Yeah, that's different. But let that sink in and watch in your experience this question. What is not happening on automatic? What is not just happening? What is that I'm doing right now? Like what is the difference between doing and happening? Really investigate that in your experience. What does it mean? Uhhuh. Sorry. But can we use that as a psychological capout to like not try to be better or not try to fix our life or not try to something? You know what I mean? like, "Oh, well, it was just a happening. I dropped that on your toe." Like, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Yeah. The mind will come up with all kinds of explanations why why this this cannot be true. But check in experience. That's the key. Like all the answers are in your own experience.

So everything is still happening whether you are describing it where you're telling story about it or not and when I'm here present as presence just this vastness openness presence words blah blah but being and there are things happening then there may be a relationship with things happening with experience happening and in that relationship there is the me

like your sister comes in and says something being as presence I hear it yeah that's that's what's happening but then there is oh this shouldn't be happening I don't like this this is the me or there's contraction and crying on my part and I say I haven't evolved so all of it is just happening and I don't have to take responsibility for Tommy's maturity and evolution In other words, there's no Tammy doesn't exist

for this body and mind stream. Tommy is a story.

Tommy doesn't feel anything. Tammy is an image in the mind. The emotions are here. Thoughts are here. Sensations are here. Tammy is not. And the thought, this can be bettered if only I would figure out how to not have pain or have better thoughts or have better body or better like less physical stuff and less emotional stuff or better relationships or better work. These thoughts are simply not true because there's no one that can do any of this. It's all just happening. Yeah.

But there is one thing to see that everything is flowing freely on its own by itself. Whatever is happening, there's another thing to see the dysfunctional patterns, the beliefs that create consequences. And by noticing them, by looking closely at the mechanisms, they they break down. But who is looking? Who is noticing?

There's no who. No, there is no who.

Mhm. Look at that. The language creates the who. It says there is somebody here, a subject that is doing, but the experience is that everything's happening. There is no who in experience. Looking and noticing it can unravel. So that's on me to do that. But there is no Okay. Yeah. So when we meet next time, you're gonna have to to report or share what you noticed, what is not happening on automatic, what you are actually doing, if if there's any doing at all.

And when you get lost in the head, go outside in the nature and see how everything's happening. And see if you are part of the nature, if you are included. I mean this body, this mind, this emotion, is that included? Is that also nature? Does that also work like everything else in the natural world?

Because the separation is there. It's like I'm separate from nature. The laws of nature doesn't apply to me. I'm in control. But then we never look at what is that me that is claiming control. And when you look it's nobody there. Nobody at home.

I guess the mind says it's me. And I don't know how to counter that. I I I don't know. Well, ask. Who are you? Who are you? Who's talking?

Who are you? Who's talking? It says I'm just voices. Okay. Voices. Just voices. Whose voices? Whose voices?

I'm hearing the universe, God, and clouds. I don't know.

Thank you. Thank you voices for entertainment. Thank you voices.

Okay.

Thank you voices of Elona. Sweet. Thank you voices of Tammy.

Yeah, it's a show.

You make it. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you.

Oh, our meeting is coming to the end. That was quick one.

Is there anyone else that would like to quickly share with I don't have a question? I have a quick question. Do you hear me? Yes, I hear you. Uh my question was is it just about noticing again and again uh just keep looking because I I mean it finally occurred to me that that you guys are speaking about the actual literal experience like what you know what you actually see and you don't see a self and you see kind of see a headless face whatever it is but the literal experience of it and so that becomes very clear but then I sort of forget about that insight ite and uh and then start searching again like how do I get rid of the self blah blah blah and then then it occurs again it's fully clear okay yes I have to follow like what is actually here so my question is how do you anchor that is is it a matter of just keep remembering to actually look at the actuality of the experience yes yes in a way I would describe it like this you know what is a what The mirage is the mirage. Yeah. Let's say you are going down on a car sunny day and you can see that there is a water in front. But when you get there, there's no water. It's a mirage. It appears as if there is water. Okay? So you may say, "Oh, I don't know what that is. Let's go and see. Let's go and see and look and look and look." But it's always the same. There's nothing there.

So at some point you know that there is nothing there to look for but until that moment yes the mind has to check from all different angles in all different situations. So it may take a while but at some point it's like yeah already know can relax

but this this looking is an invit every moment is an invitation to look freshly. It's not like, oh, I had an awakening experience in 2010. That means now I'm awake. It's moment by moment. Are you here or are you imagining something that you are? I'm trying to fix that one.

Yeah, I see. So until it becomes clear on its own, you just keep keep doing the looking. Yeah. Until it's no longer needed. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I I think you expressed this very very clearly and I'm very appreciative of that. Thank you.

So sweet. It feels like an energy comes in and a big vortex and then it suddenly gets so quiet.

I think one of the biggest difficulties is that everywhere you look, everything is supporting that illusion that here you are. You have a free will. Sort yourself out. What's wrong with you? Do something. It's up to you. You're in control.

But the control is not in a way that there is somebody separate here outside from life making life happen or doing things to make life h happen.

It's more like whatever I see, whatever attention is going to, it's that attention, that energy of presence

that is what's needed for patterns and for stuff to selfresolve. When it's seen, it's no longer unconscious. And that's how it can correct itself.

So it's bad news for the for the eye that is imagine that is trying to steer the wheel and go somewhere and get something out of this. But the good news is that you don't have to do anything about it because it's not even there.