Deep Looking: Beyond the Mind, Into the Heart

In this guided Deep Looking session, Ilona Ciunaite invites you to look directly into your own experience and explore the nature of the self.
 Rather than answering with the mind, you’re guided to notice thoughts, sensations, and awareness itself — to see what is truly here, beyond concepts and ideas.

This session focuses on the heart — feeling instead of thinking, softening attention, and allowing what is present to be fully met.
 As you follow the questions, you may begin to sense that experience happens effortlessly, without a “me” at the center.

You’ll explore:
– The illusion of self and how to look without thinking about it
– The difference between intellectual knowing and direct seeing
– How to integrate awakening through everyday awareness

Watch slowly. Pause where you need to. No effort, no belief — just looking.

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Music by Valdi Sabev. Visit his channel for more calm and relaxed music:
https://www.youtube.com/c/ValdiSabev/featured

Transcript

Awakening isn’t about becoming someone new.
 It’s about seeing through what you are not.

You’re listening to Awakening Now —
a podcast about the journey of seeing what is real
and living from that recognition.

This is episode number 110 — Threads of Awakening with Pierce Salguero.

My name is Ilona Ciunaite.
 I’m a guide, author, and co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community.
 If you are in the process of awakening, this space is for you.

In this conversation, I speak with Pierce Salguero — scholar, author, and long-time meditator — about his book Threads of Awakening and the many ways the Dharma expresses itself across traditions.
We explore how different paths point to the same recognition, how awakening unfolds beyond the mind, and what it means to live this understanding in ordinary life.

Let’s begin.

What is deep looking? Hi Ilona. Hi. Hi. So good to see you. Great to see you.

Um and thank you for the

heart opening. Um

I experience my heart being very closed.

And

yeah, so it when you said go in or something like that, it was like it's just got even tighter

Um

yeah and I guess it has been closed for a couple of weeks and I just keep on drifting to the mind and some stories

And I have tried to

ask the heart what it needed needs right now. But I guess I need a little help from you. Maybe we could do something. Okay. And see and see what happens. Yeah. Let's see what happen. I can't do anything. It's you. It's your heart. Yeah. Thank you. Just say hello heart. Hello my beautiful heart. Yeah. Hello my beautiful heart. You're so priceless. You're so precious. You're so wonderful. I love you heart. I love you so much. Yeah. You so much.

It's okay to feel what you feel. Yeah. It's completely okay to feel what you feel. Yeah. I actually I get a little sad.

It feels like such a long time since I said hello to my heart. Oh,

well, heart doesn't know time. It's always Yeah.

It's like meeting an old friend that maybe you didn't meet a long time, but you pick up where you left. It's always here. Yeah. Yeah.

And say heart. What do you want the most? Tell me or show me what do you want the most?

Yeah. What do you want the most?

It says something about just wanting to feel love again.

Both being loved and

and being open to love all the beautiful things I have around me.

Yeah, it has just been so tight for so long. So, it's like it it forgot how to love

and it actually makes me really sick.

You tell the heart, I love you. I love you. Love you. You are love. You already love. Yeah, you're already love.

Ask it. Would you like to open up

to open up?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Say, "Thank you, Heart. You're wonderful." Thank you.

Are you ready to open up?

I'm not sure. Sure. Okay. Ask it what's in the way. Is anything holding you close? Is anything that is intervening, obstructing?

Yeah, it it's something about

if I could just take all the worries into my heart. Uhhuh. Then then it will be ready. Okay. If if the heart just somehow can welcome all the worry. Okay. Let's let's look at the worry that worry is love. Worry is love. It is. Yes, it is. So, you worry about things that you don't care about.

No, I I worry about the things I care about. That is love. See? Yes. The worry is love.

I never thought about it like that.

We don't care about things. We don't worry about things that are not precious.

We only worry about things that we love.

Now it's a different question. Is worrying helping?

No,

it's all these thoughts. What if? What if? What if? What if? Yeah, it's tiring. And it doesn't change anything. No, you can worry all you want. What happens happens and then we deal with it doesn't prevent anything at all. But what if can also be sweet and and great and wonderful. What if doesn't have to be bad stuff will happen. It can be what if something amazing is going to happen. Yeah.

So that that's also love. Yeah.

Yeah. I could see that

the heart. Are you ready now? Are you ready to open now? Love deeper. be more spacious and when all the things flow through all the emotions and energies flow through. Are you ready? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. I see. Thank you, heart. You're wonderful. And we have full permission to open up as deep as wide as you are comfortable. And say one more thing. Are you ready right now? Right now? Are you ready right now?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Be with it. Stay with it. Feel it. Yes. Feel it. You don't need to do anything. Just hold your attention gently, softly. The heart already knows how to open. It's already free. So ready for it to open, expand, come back to its natural size and natural density and natural frequency. Yeah.

Which is love.

How's it feeling?

It feels more open. Yeah. Yeah. Stay with it. Yeah. Just with this open question. How are you feeling, heart? How are you feeling? What's going on there?

Yeah, I forgot to talk with my heart. I talk so much with my

sweet when when you remember, right?

It's like that friend never leaves. It's always here. Yeah.

Yeah. I just didn't think I could feel so much feel all those difficult feelings. But the heart can the heart is open for them as well.

I just forgot. I just forgot innocently. Yeah. Yeah, it's very happy when you remember.

Thank you. Thank you.

That was beautiful, Ka. And um would anyone else like to share if notice anything in your heart as we talked or before?

I can share. Hi. Hello.

So yeah, it was uh similarly it was not easy for me to somehow locate my heart. Um at one point I I like uh felt like I'm nearly falling asleep. Uh and the previous just previous dialogue um helped me better to to connect to my heart to have this dialogue which I was listening to but I did it myself as well. So yeah, interestingly, but it was not so so easy to to connect to uh to feel it. Maybe maybe two more too many thoughts in in the head and maybe too loaded. So yeah, but this was the experience.

So thank you for for the previous session. I could uh connect to it much more and uh hear that uh it's here for us always waiting. Yeah. Isn't that wonderful?

And it's tender as well. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you.

I ala hi. Yeah, I felt a blankness today. A real blankness as in like sort of very very neutral. Not particularly open and loving but not closed down either. to something that was like very um peaceful, calm, uh but not not emotional in any type of way. Not as in a negative type of way or a positive type of way. It was just very emotionless. So it was like a board. Yeah. And I feel that now and again I uh do transcendental meditation twice a day anyway and you know my causes and conditions whatever it might be and it's really it's great. Um obviously you experience different things in there. However, when I'm coming out and in my direct experience doing things every day, dayto-day, you know, being the witness, realizing that there's no me, etc., etc., things like that, things come up and down, but in this short bit here, it was just very blank. How do you feel about that? There was nothing like blank. Good question. H

yeah, that's a good question because there is a little bit of judgment there on on on the ego's part

or at least judgment in the guise of speculation. Maybe something like that. Don't know. You want to go in and see what's really going on? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. You ready? Let's take a dive. Okay. It's peaceful. Peaceful is beautiful. Peace is just calm openness. Doesn't have to be any excitement or joy. Doesn't just peace.

But sometimes that is being perceived as boring. Boring.

can't go in there cuz there's just nothing going on. It's got to be something going on. I was actually okay, but the boring because I didn't particularly feel bored. It was like, yeah, but it was it was a judgment as though to say, "You've not quite got this right, have you?" You know what I mean? Maybe. Mhm. Yeah. Okay. Can you just put your hand on your heart and say, "I'm so sorry. I'm sorry." Her heart. I You can feel what you feel. You're exactly right. You're valid and you can feel what you're feeling right now. That's enough. It's more than enough.

So currently I've got like sort of a little bit of commentary going on saying, "Yeah, that's right. It's enough." You know, but that commentary it seems to me to be commentary as in what we talked about as in he's not really doing anything much, you know, about as in you know that's right. She's she's she's correct in what she says. Okay, let's and accept that. Just acknowledging it. Yeah. So, you see when the heart speaks, it also speaks in words.

Kind of everything goes through the mind and being translated into language.

When a heart speaks, it also speaks in words or not can be just a feeling. But if words come in, it's absolutely fine.

I think maybe I uh and identify in a dialogue with maybe more exclusively. I didn't even realize exclusively with maybe ego or something some sort of secondary gain or whatever it might be. You know what I mean? So yeah, just ask the heart what do you want the most heart what do you want the most?

See what comes up.

A little bit of shaking around the the heart region

and the uh an underlying desire for peace.

That's so sweet. I'll say yes to that. I agree. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Please. This is good. This is delicious,

blissful, natural.

Ask it. Are you at peace right now? Heart, are you at peace?

More peaceful.

Yeah. Nice.

Tell the heart you have full permission to relax deeply and live from peace. Full permission. It's like an invitation to come back to your natural state, natural size, natural form,

density, frequency, being natural.

How's the heart responding to this?

responded well.

Elder heart, we don't need any theories about this. Don't need any explanations or words or concepts. It's way beyond. Yeah, that that surface level is there. It can be you know but it's just like diving into their body into the

there is this metaphor I like to use. If you look at the river there is a surface of the river and you can see the mo water moving rippling waving and there is a body of the river. It's a deeper current. There's still movement there, but you can't really see it if you're on the surface. You have to dive in into the river. Just experience the depth and what's going on there. And then there is the bottom on the ground

that holds the river. So if you dive all the way down and reach the bottom with your feet on the on the bottom of the river and that part is still it's not moving.

So if you connect that to experience of the surface is the mind ripples waves thoughts of thoughts it's running running then we dive into the body which is going into the heart and the belly

just experiencing this quiet flow. quiet with deep flow of energies of sensations.

And now we connect being or sense of being just being present to the bottom of the river, the ground that holds it all.

That's what a piece is still.

That's good. I felt like I was a boy. B O B U O Y on top. Now I'm no longer a boy.

The the the ocean itself. So that's great. Thank you.

Hello, William. Thank you. Hi. Hi.

What I noticed is I kept looking for the closed caption

and then what I noticed is that I rely so much on the words for connection.

And then as I kind of sink into that

that fear of losing connection because I'm so habituated to reaching for the word for the connection for the meaning and more and more what I'm also noticing it reminds me of the dog whisperer when he go when a dog is growling. is that don't go there. So that's kind of what's going on inside. It's that don't go down that path. Don't keep looking over there for the word for the meaning for the inter. And so I've become more and more like slowing down and stop the word stop now. But even that's a word. And when I let go of that, and I like your metaphor because it is like sinking down, sinking down. And then a current shoots me back up to the surface and I look for that word again. Yeah. And then I'm back and forth, but it's okay because there's some kind of trusting that I like the container that there's more of a knowing knowing that I'm experiencing. I don't have to have the word even when I'm wanting the word for that immediiacy of connection.

But even now as I'm talking, it's almost like I can't wait to be quiet,

I don't want to keep listening to these words. And yet here come more words. So I love that kind of

so I also saw that I'm so triggered by others by their words by their feelings like Kersia brings up memories of how open and connected I have felt in the past with my memories.

So I guess what I if I have a question I don't think I do really. I just love the feeling I get when I'm in your presence, in my presence,

and then I I can see kind of the reflection. I I imagine everyone else's hearts are not that interested or open to me, which just says, "Boy, am I closed right now." And so I just keep noticing what's going on in me and it seems like in the moment in the moment more and more I just like that reminder. So I wanted to expose this because I know the fear of

losing my connection when I get in front of other people because now I go right up to the surface and try to interact and and then I come back home. So I just just I guess just wanted to expose this in and out up and down.

Let's include it all. It's all included. And I like that sense that whatever it is, whatever it is, it's now now now. And I just found myself saying that over and over and over.

Yeah. And that connection is there. Now

it's like Yeah. Okay. The mind can go into the stories and start getting distracted. Seems like we go somewhere away from now. Yeah, that happens. It's natural. But that's included too.

So there is no need to fight any of it.

And the word or feeling of permission comes to me right now. Yeah. And that's what I I keep feeling when I do hear what you're saying because my hearing is pretty bad. But I guess I just hear enough what I want to hear anyway.

There's more being exchanged here than words. And you know that. Yes. You feel that? I do. I do. I do. I do. Yeah. So I just feel a lot of gratitude that you create a space for all us to kind of play in our moment of now with each other whatever that means.

So thank you. Thank you. And it wouldn't be here without you.

I didn't understand but I felt your feelings. It wouldn't be here without you because you are fulfill this space. Yeah. And and see that's the other part of this that I'm beginning to see more and more. I just that little particle of the oneness. I don't have to be more. What a permission. I that feeling I really need to do nothing until I find that I'm trying to be him and then come back home. Yeah, it's very it's very interesting that we are always at home. We already free. We already here. Know that that we are here. There's nothing missing. But if that starts telling stories that there is something missing and then we get to believe that and live that that's all we see. It's just so mysterious

and it's to give that permission. If you don't believe it, oh why should I believe behind story?

Yeah. So in case it's needed, give yourself permission to be free. Yeah. To know that you're already free.

Nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to achieve.

It's you. Thank you.

Please.

Um, so I have two questions. Mhm. As long as I'm already free, but I'm free to express the questions as I understand. Um, so one question is about the location of the heart. I remember some time ago you were I think uh telling about experiencing it on the left no on the right side of of a chest and I think if I'm I remember correctly you were telling that or it was Ramana Maharishi who was also telling about this side which is not uh traditionally known and I do feel a heart on this side It's more like spaciousness feeling feeling feeling I don't know calmness I guess and in in some way it's a little bit confusing because I know that physical heart is on the uh left is it? Yeah. Uh when I speak I like to hold my hand like in the middle I say yeah this is me and then there is a heart which you told about and I had an experience on the on the right. So I don't know it was uh when when we started the meditation today sometimes I feel that there's some confusion okay where should I locate it uh which is which is the place so I just wanted to ask you about maybe u how do you experience it doesn't matter how I experience but look at this there's heart okay you know there is heart yes you know that there is heart right So now just look there's the front of the heart, there's back of the heart, there's top of the heart, there's the bottom of the heart, there's right and left all around it. Okay. So look, look at the back of the heart. What's at the back of their heart?

Can you look at the top of the heart? Oops. The top part of the heart. Yeah. So, it's not like there's left heart, right heart. It's a heart and you can look at it from all different angles.

Yeah. And I I feel when you when you uh say look to the back or the top of the heart, I can Yeah. I can locate it.

So usually the part that needs most attention will come forward.

When you start putting attention into the heart, the part that needs most attention, say, "I'm here. Are you going to give attention to me?" But the right side, yes, the right, the right of the heart is like an entrance into spaciousness, openness.

That's how I experience it.

You know, words, words, words, love, divine, divine,

sacred.

We're not talking about the pump of blood, which is biological function. It's a physical. Yes, it's here. We're talking about the part that sends out longing into this human existence. That longing

comes from very deep somewhere.

That's the connection like a highway highway connection

to where you want to be.

So with eyes closed, you know, there's nothing here. It's just sensations, energies. It's not like there is a map for the inside experience. There's no map. It's just experience. And then we're trying to locate something that is not being mapped or Yeah. Okay. I see. Can you feel your foot? Yeah. You know where to feel your foot. You don't need a map for that. You know where it is. Everything's here.

It's not like, okay, I'm going to Google now. Where are my feet? Uh, okay. They should be at the bottom part of the body. Oh, here they are.

Same with the heart. You don't need to know the words where it is. Know where it is by experiencing.

So trust that. And that's it.

I guess yeah, your guidance is helping to Yeah. to experience it even I guess. So because I never had an how this exploration like bottom of the heart, top of the heart and now I I did experience it. Yeah, it was interesting. Um yeah and I had one more question. Okay. uh in the previous um conversation the person mentioned that um I'm not uh I am not separate or sentence something like that there's no separate I or something like this and recently I'm just exploring this um uh word still a word I Mhm. And uh somehow it it's quite u habitual to say I and even in this context uh when when I had also some experience of no separate eye. Mhm. But is it that still you can say I but you're not meaning the meaning is not about separate I but I as as a as an expression of a whole I don't know which is somehow expressing through through me. Uh so I just wanted to yeah to ask you uh pro probably you also use this word I and say I of course if I start referring to third in the third person like Elona or her or the body or the organism I would sound really weird people will start questioning what's going on with this one.

Yeah, that's our language says I. So, we can use I points here. So, what it's not an entity in charge or some kind of thing outside of life making it happen.

But if you know that what that the world is empty, it's not what you are. You are not the word. Then you can use any word million times. Don't become it.

The word is empty. It's just a structure.

The language is a structure. We run the energy through it, our attention through it. And then there's believing, there's imagining, there's assuming and there's also forgetting that words are empty.

But it's very useful for communication. They can carry the meaning. See, when something is empty, it can carry something. And the word can carry a meaning. Oh, cool.

Like a basket. Yeah. Yeah. Like a glass can carry juice. It's empty.

Mhm.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We have Jen, please. Hey, Jen.

Oh, you you are muted. You're muted. Hi. Hi, everyone. Sorry about that. Um

ah it's interesting you ended with that idea of the word being empty and that we infuse it or we bring meaning through it. Um,

and I feel like I well I really love this space. Thank you for creating it and I appreciate everyone here and everyone who shares and um, everyone who has shared so far. I really felt that and um what I realized is you know I I want to share too and because everyone's been so sharing um and one of and I also realized oh I'm not sharing because as people started to talk it was things that were felt challenging and so oh I shouldn't share this thing that is positive and I think I do that a lot like the interesting thing is those negative quote negative places. And so I just thought I wanted to share how wonderful it was to sit in my heart and how

having time just to feel into it um and be with it um

just felt so nice. and how I felt it expanding and then here it's the sun is rising and I started to hear birds and just got so expansive um and just now as you were saying feel into the back of your heart I was like okay h back of my heart and I could feel and you can feel the edge but then the edge grows and I don't know it's just I think those are such it feels really wonderful ful. So I want to infuse some words with that feeling and bring them out here. Um so oh thank you so much

so much joy when the heart is open. Yes, there is peace immense peace and there is also room for everything else including joy.

Thank you J. So sweet.

Hi, Michael.

Hey, Alona. Hi. How are you? Hey, I I'm I'm okay. I mean I'm I'm a whole sorts of things actually but um how are you? I'm very well thank you. Good. So um Alona I feeling in this morning lying in bed often I lie in bed and feel into the space. I I I will say right now there's a sense of peace in me and I feeling into my heart. I feel um

somehow I always see things sort of technically but I just feel I can feel sensation in my heart but it's just amongst it's just the part of the the basket of feelings and just it's just there. Um, and it's there's a yeah, it's a it's like a pressure, but it's I I I c I couldn't describe it as being joyful or anything. It's neutral. Um, so um, which is fine, which is all good. Um, neutral is good these days. Um, so waking up in bed and just lying there and I I can see there there's a there's a witnessing a seeing of of how the self the identity the character wants to is active and when there are strong hooks like I have painful situations what what I identify as challenging situations in my past, recent past and alienation and and um and um

yeah, just just really difficult situations where where I see the character wants to keep talking and just wants to keep finding its finding its way back and and bringing the scenarios up to to make it right. And I wish I'd done it wishes it wishes it had done this or it wishes it had done that. And when I lie there, it's like I can sort of see by focusing on it, it enliven it. And yet I don't know how to not focus on it. I just I I try and allow the thoughts to be as they are, just to see them as thoughts. Mhm. But there seems to be a there seems to be a there seems to be a a a center to the thoughts, a character which is actively thinking as such and which is wanting to to to go over this and it comes up with it, you know, like I've this morning I came up with new ways I could address this so I could get back and prove myself and all of this stuff, you know, become the hero I wish I had been at the time, you know. Um, and and then when I I get up out of bed and I don't even think about it, it's gone, you know, and you know, I I can see how momentarily it's just gone. It's just gone. There's no, you know, that that whole mulling over it in bed is just, you know, I can feel a sort of a a sort of a feeling residue in myself of emotionality and and sadness, but it's but I it's just like, oh, oh, I'm just up and I'm feeding the dogs and I'm just doing or I'm sitting or I'm, you know, I'm here with you and it's

I I just I I I guess my question my question is is when the when the self arises or it seems to arise as a thought when it's so enlivened when it's so enlivened by painful experience you know when it's so when it so seems that it has to solve something it it's so difficult it seems so um is it just I I try and sit with that and and say well who's What's what's who is disturbed? Who is disturbed now? And and it's just these these are just thoughts. It's just thoughts coming up now about that situation. I mean these are sort of things which I can say to myself. But it's like diving in sort of feeling into it. It just it just so feels like there's an enlivened being here and that there is a self. It just so seems like there is a self here which wants which wants what it wants what it wants and it's refusing to let go of that and it's almost seeing that my attempts to not engage in it is like makes it even stronger want make you know that is

there's there's energy that wants to be felt emotion that wants to they felt.

So why not to be kind to that character, like really kind, not dismissing it, not questioning it, not trying to get rid of it, not labeling us just a thought, because that's not being kind to it. What is being kind to it? How does the kindness look? Yeah, it's it's it's like being kind to Golem. Yeah. Why not? Why not to be kind to Golem? What's wrong with Golem? Also wants to be loved. No, absolutely. Go is a poor thing. Absolutely. Very, very. Can we just take a minute and be kind to Golem? Let's take a minute now. Okay. Just being kind. I see you. I see you. I see you.

Thank you. Thank you for showing up. Thank you for letting me know you're here.

Acknowledge.

Yes. There's a part that wants things to have gone differently, but it happened the way it happened. Yeah. There's a regret, guilt, and shame and grief and anger and fear and all these emotions.

And it's okay.

Yeah, these emotions are allowed to can come up and be,

you know, Lona in this moment. It's it's it's like when there's it's like there's there's a closeness to to awareness to clarity and I can I can absolutely have compassion for this for my for my for for who for what I think I am in my characters and Gollum or whatever you know I can absolutely feel kindness towards that that that pain part of myself. I guess what happens is that I lie in bed or I'm in bed at night and these thoughts come up and normally I sleep quite well but then these thoughts come up and I'll find myself just the thoughts and I try and just allow them to be there but it's like in allowing to be there the thoughts seem to have their own engine which is a character and the character wants to have its say and it wants to make it right and it wants to make it right. And so then I stay up in bed and I'm just watching this process and just trying well trying. I guess that's it being doing my best to just be with whatever's coming up and yet I don't sleep and it goes on and in the morning I it's like a whole thing. It's written a whole thesis on the whole thing. And it's and of course there's never I don't ever take an action on that like I could write so many emails you know as a you know as a response but whereas I see that to to act upon to act upon it would just be to enliven it you know to to sort of throw another another spark of life into the whole drama you Yeah. And I know the feeling when the story wants to be uh told over and over and over over again like oh should have done they did that and those you know these you know these idiots and [ __ ] in my life and yeah it's a good story. You can give it five stars. You know we may like it. It is it is it it becomes it becomes this this colossal story of of epic proportions because it's because it's so whatever it is it just it wants it just wants just it wants to solve it wants to fix it wants to and I can and and I can see the kindness in a way of the thought but it's like It it but it seems more than anything it wants to stay alive. It just wants it just wants to just express itself and be and and continue to say [ __ ] I'm I'm here. Okay. I'm here. You know, you can give it a stage and say here you are. I'm here. Yeah. I'm in the audience. I'm listening. And then you ask this question. What do you want the most? This is a magical question. It cuts to the root of what do you want the most? The answer may surprise you. Can ask it now and see what comes up. Ask the part, what do you want the most? Peace. It's peace. It wants peace. Yeah, it's peace. Yeah. It doesn't want all this, you know, show. It wants peace. Now the second question to ask is are you ready for peace?

Ask the part are you ready for peace?

God. It's like I get it's like I there's like a court there. And all of a sudden there was a court of characters and the child is saying no I'm I'm not ready for peace and it's and the other the other parts are going oh for God's sake will that child just shut up they're looking at it but but this this opens for you the view what's really going on. Yeah because there is part it's saying I want peace but at the same time it doesn't want peace. So there is internal war going on. Yeah. There is an internal war going on. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. In the world there is no winning. I know. There is losing. Only I'm saying I know. And who is saying I know right now? What is saying? You know that's that doesn't matter who's saying or who's saying or who's saying doesn't matter. Let's not ask this question because one way to ask this question is to arrive at the silence and another one is to point fingers at something. Don't need that. It's just noticing there is war. Acknowledging there is war.

And let's ask these parts as they are listening now. Do you want to continue? Is war helping? Is fighting helping?

It's not.

No, it's it's obviously not helping. Oh, I'll say thank you so much for your honesty. All of you, whoever is fighting there. Thank you. Do you want to stop?

Of course. Yeah. I'll say thank you. Are you ready to stop? Are you ready to stop fighting? Cuz it's the mind fighting itself. There's nobody else there. There's nobody there. It's just mind fighting itself playing the war.

Are you ready to stop? Yes. Yes. Oh, that's a big one. Well, next step. Are you ready right now? Do you have enough of this? Yeah. Yes. Oh, that's beautiful. I'll say thank you so much for all the show, for all the efforts, for everything you did, all the care, for all the love. Thank you. You're free. You're free.

You're afraid to return to your natural state,

comfortable,

simple, true.

And just feel whatever is here is okay. The worries that everything is okay. The ends the pieces when everything's okay and everything's okay already.

It's crazy that there is just this. There is just this and there's only thoughts coming up in this moment. There's only the only thing happening is this and thoughts. It's just crazy that that that can that can get subsumed again by the character believing itself.

Character is a thought about character. Exactly. And yet that thought

it has no power. That thought has no power like any other thought has no power. It seems to have the power of habit to to take over the stage. It seems to have the power of reening itself to that it's that it that it all of itself. It cannot do that. You do that.

The thought is just a thought. It's empty.

it it seems to jump into the spotlight and become its own master, you know, and and it and it starts, you know, all of a sudden I'll there'll be seen that there's a a culde-sac of just thinking and thinking and thinking about something which is believed to be so important about its life and its story and and then and am I allowing that or is it just happening? And there's there's a there's a process of awareness slowly coming in which is saying oh witnessing that and seeing that it's happening again. It's it's it's like it seems like a habit. It doesn't seem like a thing of allowing that. If I was allowing that then then I would have control to to to stop it. Right. And Yeah. And you're saying that I have I have the control to stop that. And it in the middle of that habit subsuming the total focus. So this the habit subsumes the total focus. The habit is just a habit, right? It's something it's a program. It's dead. It's not alive. There's nothing. That's that's understood. Right. That's that's the most painful part about it because it it is realized that there's a dead thing subsuming my focus, right? That's what painful. It's like realizing there's a there's a there's a there's a non- entity and a a a fake thing subsuming my focus and attention. So, what do you do with your attention then?

I I I I there's an attempt to see that that's what's happening. I have like saying little things which childish things like saying I am aware. Am I aware? And if I say aware, it reminds me of awareness. Yeah. You know, and it like little things. And so it's like it's like I I I I I feel like I'm in kindergarten in in in in in trying to deal with something which has has a used by date which is like 20 years ago. Okay, that's that's great. Like it's it's good to be in a kindergarten. It's wonderful to be in a kindergarten. You're fresh. You you're not knowing it. It's in a way I can see that I've got there's the beginners there's there's the extreme anxiety of not knowing. I mean it's an extreme anxiety comes and goes you know it's like it's like a deathly an abyss of of fear which which which and I can say it's not here now but it's like I there seems to be that cycling into that fear of identity with something which I seeming there seemingly it seems there seems to have no control over it's just what's happening and it's doing its number and then you say to now that I have control I can I can see your attention is what fuels yeah no I I I okay so what happens if you if you stop fueling it let's say if I want to put the light on I need to put the switch up yes on then the light shows up. If I want it to go off, I take the electricity off. Yeah. Now, your attention is like that electricity. It's what makes it grow and what makes it spin and what makes it feel trapped because of the attention. Yes. Yes. Right. The exit is the exit is right there. Your attention is not obstructed by thoughts. Your attention is not glued to story. Your attention is free. You're free. Can put it in your heart. Can put it in your feet. Can put it in the birds outside. Can put it anywhere just for a few moments. Breath is very good place to put the tension in because it's always here and it's like an anchor. Breathe in. Breathe out. It's already cut the attention into the story as you notice now. Right now. Yeah. The story was all going going. Then you take the attention, put it in the breath or in the feet. Yeah. When the bomb on the chair, anything. Yeah. Any anything else? You can do that. Anything. Yeah. Out of the head. That's the most difficult thing is how to get out of the head. Yes. How to stop listening to all these stories. Yeah. Well, of course, these stories they don't come randomly. There is there are things to resolve for sure. Yes. But there is time and space for that and there is like um let's say

see see that thing that thing which wants to speak and wants to solve it doesn't trust. It doesn't trust it'll be solved. That's what needs to be solved. That's what wants to be solved. How can you live life not trusting life? That's that's because it doesn't trust because it thinks it has to solve it, right? Okay. Yeah. Let's acknowledge that there is no trust. Yeah. I I there is Yeah. I I I I I I feel so stripped bare actually and so vulnerable with with this like you know I can see how trust is the the cornerstone of a is the absolute cornerstone of a of of a sane life really right trust what does this word trust where does it land in you in you in the body where does it live

where is address now.

Oh, I've got my St. Bernard. She's whining now. When I start crying, she whines. Chloe. Chloe. Sh. Chloe. Okay. Here's for the for the audience. Look. There she is. Chloe. Oh, good girl. Beautiful. Good girl. Yeah, she is a beautiful girl. Yeah, she Yeah. Yeah. She trusts someone. Yes. Anyway, so trust. Yeah. What you know, you don't need to go look far away. Just look in nature. Everything is happening in exactly right time, the right way. Yes. And you are also run by nature. Yes. Yes. So it's it's like how can you not trust that? Well, that's that's that question leads to one of my favorite topics of worthlessness because I say that to myself. How can I not trust that? And and yet I don't. And so I, you know, it's a psych a loop of self attack, you know, where I say, are you gonna No, no, I know. I it's all right. I'm not going to go there. No, no. I I wanted to ask when are you going to decide that it's okay to trust? Life is not going to give you what you want maybe, but it gives you what you need.

Can you trust that? It seems like that that is that is occurring now. It's like it's like to me it's like it's like the to me what's happening right now is like the glimpse of the sun just coming over the horizon and those first rays that's how it feels you know so beautiful. Yeah, that's hard. Yes, you can trust that the sun is coming. Cannot come. That's lore of nature. Yeah. So that's sort of help you. Yeah. And it's it's very difficult in a dark night of the soul. It's very difficult because it seems like there is no sun coming ever. It does. But the sun comes

I can trust her.

Yeah. Make that decision for yourself. Doesn't matter what it looks, what it seems, what the mind thinks.

Everything is exactly as it should be in this moment is like this. And that's exactly how it should be. Can be. Yeah. It is.

Yeah.

Can I ask just one thing? I I I started I started I read recently I I looked which disturbed me. I read the greatest secret by Ronda Burn and when I when I look think of the secret or think of you know Ronda burn and I it's like it it's it's so it's such it's such it seems like such a painful thing to think that I could be I could be creating better feeling thoughts for myself and um and creating, you know, doing affirmations and and um things which could evolve me higher into a space because I could be making that effort to improve my life. That's a joke. That's a joke. But it's it's but you you see I am a I feel I'm right now alone. I I I I I I'm reverting, like I said, I don't know. I'm reverting to a thing where I I feel like I don't really know anything and I'm it's like I'm I'm I'm just starting all over again. And I reread that and I go, "Oh my god, maybe I I could have been that's a joke." But I know I I understand that. I well I there has been an understanding of that how the imit the the the sort of the pathway of that how juvenile or you know but it's but I it's like oh my god if I I should be I I am I am loved the universe loves me and whatever I do come works out the best for me and it seems like a cool a good thing to Hey, but it's it's it's like what it does is it it just says, "Well, [ __ ] all of these I have these thoughts coming up which are so which are so heavy and so dark and so demeaning and I'm giving I'm give I'm giving energy to them or is it just a process of awakening which is just working its way through?" He's taking for sure. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, and as as as you uncovered today that there is a there was a war inside. Yes. So, you can put any 100,000 of affirmations. If there is a side that doesn't want them, they're not going to go anywhere. Yeah. But you're going to feel more stressed because it's not working. So it's, you know, you have your own experience and whoever is saying what to do, what this is, how it works. Well, if they worked it out for themselves, great. If they're sharing, yeah, they're right. You have your own experience. Yeah, it's all about that. Seeing what works for you. You're right. Yes, we can get tips and advice and you know processes and techniques, but it always comes down what works for you. To me, it's just it's always about acknowledging what's here. Yeah. To me, what's important is just to acknowledge what's here. And if what's here are heavy thoughts, then that's what's here. Yes. Yes. And to to identify them as heavy thoughts seems to be the to me the clarity of it is just to okay. So that so that so there you are again that thinking that thinking but the thoughts sometimes as I said seem so heavy so dark and I that it that it push it's it's pushed me to a point where I'm just like I I I just don't know anything anymore. Okay. Be with that. I don't know anything anymore. Yeah, that's that's what I say, Elona. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know anything. I to be honest, I don't know anything. I I know. I know. I understand. You don't I don't know anything. And it's okay. But I because all we know is is what is here right now. Everything else is made up. There's an expectation in that within that watching that there could be feelings of liberation and or something, you know, coming through. Yeah. But that's that's

Oh, we talked about that before. That one.

Yeah. Just being okay with what is here. That's your liberation is being okay with what is here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Lord. Thank you. Thank you for sharing so bravely and openly. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, We have 10 more minutes.

Anyone else like to? Tammy. Hi, Tammy. Hey, Luna. Hi, Tammy. Um, good to hear everyone today. Um, I agree. Um, you were talking to Michael about putting our attention where we want and um, I've been struggling with that, too. I feel like

I don't have the ability to take my attention off of whatever screaming out whether it's external noise, whether it's pain, whether it's the mind, um thinking everything is an emergency that needs to be solved and trying to figure out where it's correct and where it isn't. And whatever is calling out to me, whether it's noise, music, my own emotions, it's like I'm that's it. Like the jackham outside, I just sit mesmerized by the pain of it, the sound of it, the pain in my body. I can't seem to to choose my focus. That's a good question because you can't. You can or you can't. Yes, you can. The belief is that you cannot. That's what keeps you trapped. But you can. The belief is that you cannot.

It's like a decision. I cannot choose my focus. Yes, you can.

Even in difficult circumstances. Well, sometimes there is a storm and storm passes. Then you can But sometimes even in the middle of the storm you can like for example there is a storm going when you remember to breathe and feel into the heart

can always pay attention to breath doesn't matter what's going on

but not to the point that that disappears from your experience you Oh, I mean no experience keeps going. It's just that you are in the breath letting it be.

So like we're choosing part of our focus. Yeah. I mean, okay, let let's say there's somebody screaming out there. Mhm. Yeah. Screaming. And the the feeling here goes in like this shouldn't be happening. Oh, why this idiot is screaming for example. Yeah, but it can also be like

that's happening. Yeah, just feeling what it's here. That can be going on doing what it's doing. And here you go. Just breathing.

It takes training though. It may take training, but to say that I cannot move my focus away from what's happening is just a lie. It's not true. And I I challenge you to test that.

Cuz otherwise, you know, you are like trapped. It's like saying this cloud in on the sky is stuck and the sky cannot do anything about it. Yeah, but you can remember that it's not stuck.

Yes. The experiences come and go. You're here.

I guess with your example, if you had a strong reaction within your body and mind to the screaming and all of that together was a cacophony that would hijack your attention.

Okay, we can talk theoretically now about the something that supposedly is happening, but you you test that in actual experience. But what I'm saying is at any point anytime you can bring attention to breath at least the breath feet on the floor or your hands anywhere. Yes, the energy is like going through through and it will stop at some point. But are you fighting it, pushing away? Are you resisting it or you like breathing through it? Just bringing attention to the breast like yes that's happening.

I'm here

and just keeping your breathing slow like slowing down. Whatever is whatever energy is spinning it's going to spin. Let it spin. But you can take a slow breath. Just bring attention to that and maybe in the next few times you forget but at some point you will remember and then you try and then you see.

So you're not saying we can fully take our awareness off of physical pain or spinning thoughts or noises outside. You're saying partially like that we can can bring attention to breath no matter what's happening

but not that the other thing will disappear. In other words, I can't take that out of my consciousness completely. That's not what you're saying. Okay. I thought you saying you could choose what you don't notice it. No, it's not that you don't notice. It's there. It's there. You notice it. It's happening, but you're not feeling it with your attention or resistance.

You're just here.

Being present to what is here. Being present is noticing the breath. Being in the moment, knowing that something is happening. Yes, it's happening. It's not happening here so that I change it. It's happening here so I can see it.

And yes and I I want to mention another thing that

we have to train the focus to be able to concentrate because our all experience depends on how how well we can hold focus or concentrate

cuz if we cannot if we don't have the muscle then we are like a leaf in the wind everything is blowing and everything is moving us but we can concentrate just be with a breath or with a dot on the wall or whatever just practicing concentration

just to get the mind to focus cuz that monkey there needs a toy. It needs something to play with. Mhm. And you you want to do something, but the monkey wants to play. So that's where your ability to concentrate comes in.

Mhm. And I don't know if we've been told about that,

but if let's say you want to achieve something, you have to focus. You have to be able to do the job from start to finish or even start.

It's everything in life depends on that ability to to focus. Your experience depends on ability to focus.

So you can make a game, you can have a practice, whatever you know, whatever you're doing, just make it into practice to concentrate

even while stuff within the body, the mind or outside is going on. Uh not necessarily, you know, pick easy moments. Mhm. like you're walking down in a park and nothing is happening and then focus on something on a tree in front of you and don't move the focus until you pass it.

That's interesting because I thought these meetings are all about there's no person, there's no doer like realize that you're not doing any of it but now you're saying to train a focus. Yes. Doesn't make it into a D. M there's no there means everything is flowing freely. If there is knowing of experience of practice of concentration that can come into play. Mhm.

Okay. And again, it doesn't mean that, in other words, like I'm focusing on something like I'm trying to do stuff around the house and there's noise outside and that's causing pain inside and causing my thoughts. So, all of that is a ton of noise, right, on three different levels and then I'm trying to focus on stuff and I it's being hijacked by the attention to these three things. But you're saying it's not that those three things will disappear, the pain will stop or the thoughts will stop or the noise will stop. It's just that I'll be still able to get stuff done and like focus on what I want to focus, but the other stuff will still fully be there at the same time. Yeah. That you are expanding to allow these things to be cuz they're already here. Mhm. Because if there is no allowing then there is fighting that that shouldn't be happening. That should be happening. And then you are at war with what is. But what is is not asking for permission to be. It's asking you to expand to allow it all to flow through.

Okay. I'm glad I asked because that's an important distinction. I was thinking that if I focused, I should be able to feel like I'm at a beach in Hawaii. You know what I mean? Like I won't notice anything. I'll just be floating on a cloud. Everything will feel great. There'll be no pain. There'll be no noise because of the intensity of my focus. But you're saying not to aim for such things. No, just let it be. And you can just breathe. Breathe through it.

That would be nice. You know, you could just switch off switch off the like that. Maybe we can some different And if I still feel at war, sorry. If I still feel it at war where in the body is still contracted then just focus through that. In other words, don't try to solve that either. Yeah. Well, there are things that we need to solve for sure. We we can't deny the human experience or body's needs and stuff like that.

But not every moment is for solving. Not every moment is for relaxing. It's flow. But at any time you can take a three deep breaths and return to presence.

Slow deep breaths.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Rather an important question. Thank you.