The One Question That Ends the Waiting | Won Bo (Zen Nun) on Awakening

Have you been craving awakening? Waiting for the moment when everything finally softens, the mind gets quiet, the heart opens, and you can finally stop searching?

In this awakening now episode, I sit with Won Bo, a Lithuanian nun living in Korea. From the very first minute, something in her presence invites you to slow down, soften, and see what’s already here. Nothing dramatic. Nothing mystical. Just truth, lived by someone who has dedicated her whole life to clarity.

We explore the ordinary moments seekers overlook, the craving that hides beneath “spiritual progress,” the tenderness of glimpses that fade, and the simplicity of Zen’s most direct practice: What am I?
Not to find an answer… but to fall back into don’t-know, the space where awakening unfolds by itself.

If you’ve ever felt “not enough,” or wondered why awakening feels distant even after years of seeking, this conversation may feel like a quiet homecoming.

WHAT WE EXPLORE TOGETHER

• Why she chose the monastic path  and what actually surprised her
• A clear, gentle definition of awakening that removes pressure
• How the Three Poisons silently guide your daily reactions
• The subtle trap of craving awakening (and how to recognize it)
• Why glimpses fade and why that isn’t a failure
• A practice you can use at any moment of your day
• How “don’t-know” becomes a lived, spacious way of being


If you want to explore this more deeply, I created a short guide called Introduction to Deep Looking. It’s a gentle way to meet what’s here and begin unwinding the tension underneath seeking. You can receive it by signing up on my website. 

Here is the link:
https://ilonaciunaite.com/deep-looking-ebook/

If you read it and something moves in you, you are always welcome to write to me and share what opened.

Subscribe to my Newsletter for free monthly Zoom meetings: https://ilonaciunaite.com/subscribe/

Music by Valdi Sabev, Visit his channel for more calm and relaxed musichttps://www.youtube.com/c/ValdiSabev/featured

⚠️ DISCLAIMER

This content is for educational purposes only and **not** a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If anxiety is severe or you have thoughts of self-harm, please seek help from a licensed mental-health professional immediately.

Transcript

Awakening is a shift in perception, a clear seeing of what you are and what you’ve mistaken yourself for. It reveals what was here all along

You’re listening to Awakening Now, a podcast for those who are on the path of self-discovery and spiritual awakening.

This is episode number 116. The One Question That Ends the Waiting | Won Bo (Zen Nun) on Real Awakening

My name is Ilona Ciunaite.

I’m a guide, an author, and co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed community.

If you are in the process of awakening, this space is for you. For 14 years, I’ve supported people through awakening—both the clarity and the confusion that follow the first insight.

Have you been craving awakening? Waiting for the moment when everything finally softens, the mind gets quiet, the heart opens, and you can finally stop searching?

In this awakening now episode, I sit with Won Bo, a Lithuanian nun living in Korea. From the very first minute, something in her presence invites you to slow down, soften, and see what’s already here. Nothing dramatic. Nothing mystical. Just truth, lived by someone who has dedicated her whole life to clarity.

We explore the ordinary moments seekers overlook, the craving that hides beneath “spiritual progress,” the tenderness of glimpses that fade, and the simplicity of Zen’s most direct practice: What am I?

Not to find an answer… but to fall back into don’t-know, the space where awakening unfolds by itself.

If you’ve ever felt “not enough,” or wondered why awakening feels distant even after years of seeking, this conversation may feel like a quiet homecoming.

Welcome to Awakening Now podcast and today my guest is really interesting and she's a nun and she lives in Korea. She is called Womb and she's from Lithuania from the same country like me. So I'm so pleased to introduce you to my guest today who has been practicing Buddhism many many years and she is a nan and I'm sure for you will be very interesting to find out why she became a nan and what brought her to Korea and what is the everyday life of somebody who is dedicated to truth to freedom to peace and I'm so grateful today to have you here. Thank you. Hello Elana and everybody. Very happy to be here. And and I already I was saying to you that I'm a follower of your channel. So I'm really happy to be here. Sweet. Um well, if you're a follower, you know that I ask this question everyone on my show. What is your definition of awakening? So we know what we are talking about.

Uh actually I'm uh I'm practicing in Zen tradition. So in Z tradition we kind we have this purpose awakening enlightenment but we don't really emphasize this a lot because it's very easy to attach and people really we can see people really attach us more many times even like in Zen they attached to this so we not so much talk but if say shortly just my my definition uh it's just Very simple and is our traditional like teach like this. Just seeing clearly, listening clearly, smelling clearly, talking clearly, thinking clearly, everything is clear. What is what color is wall in front of you? White. What color is sky? What person in front of you? That's all. just everything clear. Nothing is clouded by unnecessary judgments, thinking, thoughts or even if clouded then you immediately see this cloud and you're not lost in this. So shortly like this is kind of and not not special. We try uh not try but uh uh in Zender teaching teaching that is not special. Don't make anything special because when we make special then then we lost in this and we attached to the special and uh then all sorts of problems from attachments arise. Oh that's so beautiful. Thank you. Very clear definition. I love it. H. So how tell tell us a little bit about your path. How one day you just decided to become a nun. How did that happen for you?

It's actually nothing special. Usually people see it as really like something special. But u I don't know maybe you also know you just start looking for something and and your way just develops to this. It's not that you like really doing some hard decisions, you know. It's just you're looking for you start practicing, you have a lot of questions, you know, first you have a lot of questions. What is this life? Who am I? You know, what I'm doing here, where I will go after I die or where I came from before I born, you know, all these questions and then you just start look and uh you find this path. So there are different kind of paths. So in my my case I found Zen Buddhism and Korean tradition and uh we had in Lithuania we already had Zen center quite for a long time before even I join already it was there. So I join and practice a little bit and I really see that it's wow it's really m it's like for me this is what I was looking uh it's just practice little bit and then uh I I think um it just was too difficult for me to like go to work outside like leave outside situation like I was student at the time and I was not very skillful. actually to make practice you know looking searching for some truth and this outside this usual life to make uh together it's like like was fighting between and so I decided I want just do this just practice nothing else but but of course this is what actually this is the thing what every Buddhist practitioner goes through and later if they become monks or nuns they like really shocked because they think that you know we will go to quiet place and just practice and we will not be involved in any unnecessary problems unnecessary relationships nothing will disturb us we only practice everyone most of people have this idea but when we arrive in the monastery we see that this kind of things what we were running from even more in the in The monastery is even more because it's like secluded like small community and all these things appear even more all this kind of especially relationships and all the anger and any kind many different kind of things and you shocked how I was running from this but I came to even bigger. So actually what I trying to say that is not I was running from this thing I from the all this society and all this like making family and working and because I thought it's not possible to make it you know to practice in the normal usual way life in usual life it's not I I thought it's not possible but uh when I became an now I see that it's completely possible it's No difference it's possible same in practice and attain anything in in just life as you live you know no need also to make any special of your life you know to practice or to attain something or to realize you don't need anything special but at that time I didn't know this so so I needed to go through this but this way for me is good anyway I'm like I feel lucky that I found this way and become became became a nun but it's not necessary for most of people because some people just get idea that oh then I in order to practice then I I need to become this monastic it's not necessary yeah I agree sometimes it sounds like very romantic idea I can just live in a monastery meditate 247 and no problems but as you say maybe it works like a multiplier like zooming in into all these mental problems that we all carry and we can't really run away from that. So, oh, and what was your first um how to say shift or like that the first taste or the first glimpse and we talk about glimpses a lot that you said, "Oh, wow. This is what I'm looking for." Can you tell a little bit about that?

Why like first it's difficult to like put in the words you know like especially like it's very very first glimpses when I just came to Zen center it's just you feel just feel it's just uh you know just feel it's not you know cannot describe in the words you just know like is this is for me you know but then later of course there were many glimpses

but I don't know should I tell to tell I know it's nothing special okay but just something that you told for me was very that's what I'm looking for like for me was very like there are so many things actually you cannot tell like specifically one or two things but there was several things especially like in Buddhist teachings in Buddha's teachings uh wow it's so m so matching for me so like um maybe one like really strong what I really remember very strongly in Buddhism there are very simple teaching actually about three poisons I probably I don't know do you know yeah please tell three poisons so the three poisons is is um greet sorry my English now I need to translate to different languages. So Buddha taught that um there are three poisons which is uh cause of all our suffering in the life only three three things. So he said this greit then anger and then ignorance and ignorance consist of few things. So first impermanence that we don't uh that our life is impermanent but like uh we live that is we live like we will live for thousand years. We know that we will die but we will live like uh we we live like we still have time. Of course we will die. We say this and we think of course we will die but but in behind in our mind we still have this feeling we still have time. We always think like this. So this is not realizing impermanence not really not realizing what how impermanent our life is. So this and the other thing is no self. So uh that we create this like uh what we think what we feel what uh what uh society tell to us what uh we tell to ourselves and create all this bubble and we call this self. This is me. But this is in Buddhism this calls false self. False. It is false self not true self. So, but we're ignorant about this because we're ignorant that we take this false self as a self as a real self and we live to accommodate this false self. All life we just put all effort we're living for this false self and so it's so ridiculous actually. Anyway, so this is the kind of ignorance and so first thing then this um anger and um greed but can be desire or desire desire or greed. Yeah. So when these two things also is very important for me was of course this third thing like ignorance also like really hit me very strongly when I I like hurt first time and then practice more like wow but then this uh greet and anger is also is not so simple as it looks at beginning you just think I is okay greet and anger sometimes maybe I'm greedy sometimes maybe anger but not not you know all the time I I'm still not the greatest or angriest person but then uh if we translate this more open you know this translation very narrow we're and usually is everywhere in Buddhism they translate like this greit and anger but actually more translation is more open it's like first is this greit is actually not just greed is is craving any kind of craving and Second, not just simple anger but aversion. Yeah. So when this for me was shock like kind I don't know in shock or glimpse or realization but I just saw you know that actually every moment we do this every moment or or we craving something or we have aversion towards something every single moment even like not every single moment but uh um many a lot like almost every moment if we meet some people. So if we like them, we want to be with them more. We don't like with and even like uh small things, you know, like um I don't like how this person opened doors. I don't like how uh somebody did the job. I don't like it. So this is aversion and you know something I don't like this and with this together goes that I don't like this and most of people have this then I need to fix this. I need to fix this because I don't like this. I need to fix this. So I saw this in myself this like mechanism like I put I don't know 90% of uh my time my awake time like daytime I just putting I just seeing what I you know don't like what is not correct not not how it shouldn't be and how trying everything to fix and not necessarily like you actively trying to fix but inside you know you doing something like at least a holding you know. So this was like and this craving also craving and aversion all the time. We just between these two things all the time the time never peace. So interesting. It was like I'm I have some tea here. Right. So it's I drank a little bit. I put it on the side and I start feeling craving. I want another sip. I want another sip. Is that what you mean as well like you said it's almost all the time if you want it's not mean that you cannot uh have any wanting you know it's okay but you see you you just see city and you just drink it this is like very simple but if you start more like um think about this and you see see this tea is very simple example it's very difficult to create something But maybe you can start create old mental things about this tea, you know. Yeah. I don't want I don't want to distract the conversation. What should they do? Should they drink it? Not to drink it. And then it can become a whole big story in the head and I'm lost in thinking and I'm not even listening to you. Yeah. And yeah, maybe you start thinking maybe uh I I really like this tea. Maybe I need to buy more. maybe where I can can buy this more or or some just more many things but as I said this tea example is very simple it's difficult to create many things it's still possible actually some people can make about simplest things like a lot of stories but is more like especially we can see this very clear where we can see this with interactions with people this is like very easy to see when we are craving or or where we have aversion especially like we aversion we can see very fast like I mean if we see this is the problem that we don't see this this is the the biggest problem is that we do this and we don't even realize that we do this we don't we not even aware because it's so natural to us and we're so used to it we don't even realize that we do this all the time this like I I don't like this, I don't like this like I like this, I don't like this, I don't like like non-stop and we uh in usual mode in usual living mode we don't see this. So first step is to become aware about all the stuff we like doing unconsciousnessly like this craving and aversion and also of course ignorance the ignorance thing also. Mhm. So what would you say somebody that is getting curious about awakening or truth realization or who am I questions? What would you say is the first thing that needs to happen

first? Actually of course in our school in in tra in in our tradition in Buddhism is still is important to like uh formal practice we do meditation and uh of course teacher this is important but um first even before this before all this just uh but because actually some people they need all this but some people don't need you know Mhm. Some like all this formal way now and somehow it's interesting more and more we can see that more and more people somehow they don't need all this like system you know go through this all formal teaching teacher or formal practice or some somehow they just go straight direct way you know so but some people need this still need this formal you know it's like very depend on person first this person maybe needs to try several things or something I don't know but you need to see you know it's doesn't mean that all same that everybody needs this or everybody need needs to see what you more what is more matching for you but first step for before everything else doesn't matter what you do the formal or not formal or you just looking for some direct way just start with awareness a awareness awareness doesn't matter How far we are on the way doesn't matter how much we know about any kind of teachings did we practice something or not we can start awareness right now in this moment yeah let's do what I'm doing now right now yes

yeah what I'm doing now who am I who am I what I'm doing now because What I'm doing now is sounds like very simple but it's uh it's really brings us uh back in this moment because uh if we also look closely how we do things any kind of things or just simple sitting or talking with people or of course working or something we usually not do only that thing. So we we get carried with many other things unnecessary things you know it's very rare when we do only this one some kind of thing so this uh this is what I'm doing now you bring then then just 100% just do this thing what you're doing now okay sitting looking talking nothing Yeah, this is very simple question but it's like brings you back and other thing of course in our school in our tradition we we use main our practice is question what am I? What am I? And uh sometimes people misunderstood because uh misunderstand because they think that they need to find some question sorry some answer that that there are some answer but uh in our school is teaching our teacher was teaching this don't know and this is all Korean tradition is like really just this teaching all the zen Koreans and tradition just main teaching is this nothing else just don't know oh that's what not so many people and they say uh yeah I want to know what I am right and then they say okay what happens when you ask this question who am I really and then they say I don't know so it's kind of it's not it doesn't seem like the answer But that is the true answer and that silence that opens when the mind gets quiet and there is this spaciousness openness. I don't know. Yeah. And that is exactly that right. But one more step is very important with uh at the beginning we can say what am I but then because I is already is already problem when we say I because we have some kind of what is the I I I you know this already this false self appear. So what is this? First we can ask few times what am I? Because sometimes we're not you know used to this but then what is this you know what is this not even put I because this is another way to attach so what is this before all names before all forms before everything I know before everything anybody any time said to me before anything any of all this what is this and then stop there. You just ask and then you just have this like at beginning may of course people will not have but very sincerely very very s sincerely because sometimes it's interesting with this question that people don't want to ask this they don't feel comfortable is not comfortable because we don't have answer so so many times people they don't want they try a little bit like what what am I what am I It's not working for me you know so doesn't matter what you think you know what kind of mind gives you answers doesn't matter what is working not working doesn't matter before all form all name before everything I know what is this and then just stop and then you feel this uh don't know it's even not in the words it's just arise this kind of don't know and You stop there. Don't know. And then you more like uh keep this late after some time. You don't even need to already put in the words this you know this question. You don't need to even it's kind of state. It became like kind of state you know your state how to say yeah some kind of being you know you just already you and then it's become that this question what is this and don't know it's just become one you know it's just become one and you are this you become this like question if you keep like questioning like this practice if you keep this practice and then You all sit like you are this like question and don't know all your being become like this. So of course but go to that some people naturally. So some very lucky people who have very good karma immediately have this but most people need to like uh practice practice with this question until they go to this like to really get this question because also this question we have this saying that it can be that question or life question. If it's that it's just you just repeating what am I don't know and most of time you starting with you starting with that per question it's you can so if you like you have a life but most of the time at the very beginning you have just that question you just what am I don't know what but it's like a song it to yourself it's like mantra you know it can become the danger of this that is become like mantra and you just never pass through this that that question you never arrive to the life question. So it's important to more behind even the words look really even behind all the words you know just look look deeply what am I what is this and stop

so and this Actually beauty of this practice actually I spent at least 15 years for sure at least 15 years uh like keeping this that question and you have no idea even people teach about this life question you still cannot grasp until and until you didn't uh experience this yourself you know this feeling you need you can only know for yourself what is this life question means because before all this teaching still they don't uh it's nice teachings but still it doesn't help you so you need to do this yourself so for me at least 15 years I was just with this that question and many I know like monks and nuns because this is the main practice like doing retreats twice a year for 90 days just closed place you know some group of monks and nans we just do And some people spend like a lot all some people maybe all life they spend. So this first you need to you know understand that this can be that that question but important not to stuck there to look you know behind this even and don't be disappointed or discouraged if it's it doesn't feel like it's alive you know still try try try again try what is this H now I think many people who are listening to this they want this enlightenment you know five o'clock why hasn't it happened yet and they say what 15 years I don't have 15 years I want it now this is very yeah so what I yeah of course but the what I didn't finish actually what I said that the beauty of this practices that of this keeping question you can do this anytime anywhere Even sleeping actually even sleep. So but it doesn't matter actually don't go we don't go so far don't need because because some people goes there to you know also touch so but doesn't matter what you do you don't need any formal of course if you do some formal meditation is little bit helps at beginning to deepen it you know but it doesn't m it's not necessary it's not necessary if you you know grasp this life question what I'm what is this if you grasp it that you can keep this any place and and you can be even more productive actually in life situations because some people think if I start practice the spiritual things I will be not productive I I will be like outsider I will not fit in society and most people like this and I was like this but but um if you really practice you can do this with everything and is you can go to shopping you can talk to people uh whatever they want to talk it doesn't disturb your practice. It doesn't this question is always there can be always there just you just remind from time to time you need to remind yourself until it's become like all the time. Mhm. Beautiful.

Now I'm curious. What is your normal everyday look like?

Oh, normal is like a monastery life still have a lot of things. Uh we have a lot of like work, physical work and things like this. And we have practice. We wake up uh three before 4:00 in the morning. So we start practice 4:00 and then u like morning then practice then maybe 6:00 breakfast then 10:00 again practice then some work then lunch and again evening practice. So it's like it's all the time like this you know nothing special but of course people coming some people in Korea it's interesting that many people come to talk to monks and nuns so it also takes time you need to to take time for this also

I just enjoy this moment of stillness and silence with you.

I'm not even waiting for the next question.

It's just nice to experience your presence.

Okay. What comes in is this question of greed and how people can work with that. I I know it's not just about money or keeping things or hoarding or not letting things go. It's so much more than this. So this craving because a lot of people are craving awakening. Isn't that interesting? Craving for something to happen, some kind of experience and it becomes clinging. So let's talk about craving in the terms of spiritual seeking.

So f uh first uh I would like to say about this like uh spiritual things like uh experiences and like enlightenment and everything don't make special don't make special because when we start making the special then we need to get this and so many people like including me actually we like Buddhist people it's very common for Buddhist for Buddhist people because this is you know number one thing enlightenment or some experience very strong experience. So we waste our time to chasing the some kind of idea that is something like

something super I don't know supernatural maybe even feeling or something and sky you know opens and all our thing all our attachments all our suffering everything will fall fall down we will be free completely and this is just another u is this Just another delusion. Actually we this craving actually for like kind of awakening or enlightenment like attachment to this is even even worse than attachment to the material things actually because material things so special because I'm a seeker right and I cannot let go of that idea that I'm the seeker. Yeah. And uh another thing that somehow is more difficult to notice this thing when you like have this mind that oh I I want new car I want new house I want this I want like this material things you still know that you have you like kind of aware and that you have this okay you somehow explain to you that why you need this you know you have explanations or you know justifications why you need this but you know about you that you like little bit want all this stuff. But when you are practicing person, you think that you don't want anything. You know that like you put down everything and you practice and you just then this like you just so clear practitioner and you create all this stuff about yourself. The most what what is most scary thing that you're not even aware is not you're not even aware how much stuff you made about yourself as spiritual person because somehow this is more difficult to be aware of or maybe more scary actually you don't even want to go there. Yeah. you know to be to see that you practice for 20 years you know to be like to become like compassionate person but deep inside maybe you have thought I hate this person next to me so it's scary to see it's scary to see this thing you know because you have created about yourself this image and then suddenly you have this so you just block you know you just block this thought you don't see it's not it's just you know and many things like this. So that's why I say it's scary uh you know because we don't really see how many things we created with the spiritual things and how how our idea about what kind of uh practicing person we are is really different from reality. So the uh the f first think of everything any kind of craving actually it doesn't matter be aware as much as possible of all things what is coming up like really and you you you need be really brutally honest with yourself really brutally is scary sometimes is scary you really need to open all the covers you know how you nicely Because we like practicing spiritual people. We have very nice covers to cover all the ugly stuff what we don't want to see with the very and we can live like this for all life and be happy spiritual people you know but you need to be as as brutally honest as possible to see everything you know and so awareness awareness is first step in everything you know. Like to see you notice some like just to see you just notice some dissatisfaction appear with some person for example person next to you you know very slight dissatisfaction then you see this but you don't judge yourself this is another thing when we start oh then I'm bad practicing person oh I'm you know this and that so because this is the Next we start judging ourselves and then blaming ourselves and then this is another bottomless pit you know with this judging and blaming ourselves. So you see appear something appear and because first we don't even see so it takes time you know sudden after some time we start see something appear but you don't like follow this thought for example some feeling you know dislike you don't follow this but you don't fight with this you just see and you just see what is this just just openly that just look without judging, without anything. Okay, it already appeared. This thing is already appeared. So fighting with this is no no nonsense to fight with this. It's already here and then try to sol to somehow to solve this or is also no no meaning just this disappear. It appear because of some conditions. There was some certain conditions what made this thing appear like for example arrow feeling some the some bad feeling towards somebody there was so many actually conditions most of them or maybe all of them we don't know maybe one we know condition but most of them we don't know conditions you know it goes very far far to the maybe last lives so so you know you don't know all the conditions why this appear But it because it's a pair because of the conditions it's stupid to fight with this because it's so many conditions. So the the wisest thing what and I don't know most healthy thing what you can do this what appear let it be let it allow allow this thing what what appear to be you don't need to fight to this you don't need to reject this you don't need to do anything because anything you do you just wasting your energy and you will not win you will never win this thing what you know appear especially some kind of negative thing even if you like how to say whip yourself for that that doesn't work. No, this is like number one thing. What doesn't work the worst? This is the worst. Yes. A lot of times people say, you know, I had this thought and I shouldn't be thinking there's I'm wrong. I shouldn't be doing this. Why is this happening to me? and it just spirals down into a lot of guilt and shame and and um it seems like there's no way out. So yeah, but the one thing to understand this what appear is not good not bad. It appear before because of conditions. There is hundreds conditions childhood your some something your thinking many many conditions it's just all conditions in one and this is appear it's not good or bad it's just conditions from causes some kind of causes and made this now appear this is not good or bad if you see at if you make this good or bad then it's problem the moment when we say this is good or this is bad then it's problem but if it's not good and bad okay now I am feeling anger I'm angry like I am not actually I am actually this is what bad thing to say sorry this is bad thing to say not I am angry but now anger appear it's not I am an I not I it's not me this anger is not me because of some conditions anger appear okay I let this anger be but doesn't matter it doesn't mean that I'm starting shout or you know doing something what this anger say to me to do I don't do this I just let okay anger appear it can be because it's already appear it's I cannot make anything to disappear this so it's natural just appear I just look at is no judging, no blaming, nothing. Now it's anger appear or bad think bad thinking appear or bad thought appear. This is appear because of condition. I look at this and when I look like this and no need even to investigate why disappear, why what I did and no this is no need to do this. You just see okay disappear and when you look like this then you notice that it has no power over you because otherwise it has power over you. If you think oh I am angry or this person made me angry or whatever you already make then this thing what appear controls you but if you just see same craving we talk about craving. Mhm. Mhm. So you see but this is easier actually again with the material things if you have I want new car. So no it's very easy to see you know I want a car new car so you just see no need to do anything you just some wanting appear you don't fight you don't do you don't follow this just it can be allow it to be when you allow it to be it not controls you and this it's like magic actually it's like it just disappear after some time of course some things very strong and disappear in but when you're used to this like bring awareness. So first thing is easier to do this like simple things like uh you feel anger towards some person there are some you know some you have some relationships some difficult people so you feel already naturally you immediately feel some past you know troubles or something or you have some wanting something very strong or uh another thing fear many people have very strong fear towards something like most of the time like towards like what will be you know f you know unknown future some I don't know how I will you know maybe I will get some sickness maybe I my my husband will leave me maybe this maybe this maybe like this kind of fear a lot of fear so this is good to practice to just oh fear appear hello hair. Hello my friend. It's because his friend actually because he's showing us where we are stuck. He's showing us our problems where we have you know problems. So, so with this kind of things is very easy kind kind of easy actually but compared to like spiritual things as you was were talking like this attachment craving for like spiritual experiences is somehow is much more difficult to see. So first we try with the simple simpler things and then we move like try somehow a little bit open this spiritual cravings. Okay. What comes to mind is that nowadays a lot of people had these glimpses where they had an opening and everything felt light, easy, thoughts were not coming or if they were coming they were just passing by and then that experience goes away after a while, you know, minutes, days, weeks, but it goes away and then there is this craving to get it back, get that experience back. And it's kind of weird because whatever or whatever happened, it cannot come back. That's one thing. But they want it so much that nothing else is interesting anymore. They just want the experience. So can we just open that up a little bit now and and see just like an invitation to feel that wanting to get that experience back? Yeah, this is very good start. I think if if some people have this because it's quite common for people, you know, to have some experiences and then crave cra have craving for this. Again, this is like very common in Buddhist world also. So yeah, first uh again don't make anything special. Whatever experience is already passed great experience whatever enlightenment experience you what you doing now right now what you are doing right now and who are you now so come back to this and then if we have this like very strong uh from time to time you know this appearing I want this experience again so this is good start to to cover you know to cover take covers out because this is like very clear indication that you have somewhere you are stuck somewhere in some spiritual craving. This is if you have this then this I think good start to do this like to look at this who who is wanting this you know who who is wanting this again experience this who you know just stop there who is really wanting

Yeah. And what's missing right now? Yeah. Yeah. So for us is never enough. The thing is never enough. So whatever you know we have even we have experience we still don't some people even don't have you know experience and they don't trust this they don't trust it's too simple experience. Mhm. Mhm. Or you know on in your life what now you know you are in your life you are sitting somewhere maybe you talking to something somebody to you seeing something but behind is something not enough you know you something not enough you you need and it's not even thought it's just like feeling you know most of people why we have yeah we have this kind you know nowadays is very People are make yourself better you know find you know this make develop yourself you know make yourself better it's not enough what who you are now it's not enough that's a big disease yeah especially it's interesting look looks like uh in nowadays is more common somehow people more like uh because maybe before in the past people had not enough you know like this material material things you know like uh maybe no no food not good life like mater material thing is not satisfied. So people was uh like more concentrate on this material things. But then nowadays most of people actually already okay material mater how to material they okay materialistically they are kind of okay then is something bad that's then you look something inside then something bad with me you know then it's not something not good I need to become better person so it's not it's always not enough so this kind of minds Just notice this like it's a lot of you know fun actually noticing another thing don't take ser too seriously all the stuff you know people take like really seriously you know it's just do this like experiment okay one more craving appear w what a interesting craving just look at this craving don't make is that how can I have this craving Still okay. Yeah. It's a craving to not have craving craving to not have craving. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's also another.

Yeah. I like when you say just take it easy. It's not special because spiritual journey is already so special. You know in many in seeker's mind is the most special thing. If I am not a seeker then what am I? kind of let cannot let that go.

You know, it always saddens me to remember I was speaking, you know, on some Zoom meeting with this lady. She was 84 or something and she said she lived her whole life and she never experienced contentment. It was always not enough. And it's really sad to hear that because that's optional. I mean, we can live with this. We don't have to.

What if it's all enough right now? This is it right now. There's nothing better, nothing worse than right now.

Yeah. I'm enjoying right now really much.

Yeah. Because this mind create always you know or we have some pain or we have some luck something what create we think we lack this something something experience so this kind of always stops us it's just okay even I have pain is still enough okay it's little bit uncomfortable yeah of course it's uncomfortable to feel pain but it's also something caused this pain. Now if I can do I do something but if I cannot is still is still enough even with pain even with something I really like uh maybe I don't have food yeah for today I have no food is still even in this case can be make you know can look at this like this is enough but because it's really enough

because you only have this whatever even if you say okay not enough you know I have pain I don't want to have this pain then you put also much effort fight of course maybe you will fight this pain with some medicine or something but maybe it still come back then what then again more more more fight so of I don't say don't cure pain you know of course cure but now in this moment even you cure maybe you have still have pain and it's It's okay. It's It's okay. Just It's not good or bad. It's just It's like this now. Just like this. This moment a little bit uncomfortable, but it's okay.

It can be like this can because it's already is like this.

So actually like with all this thing like I I noticed that we just spent all our energy on this not enough you know not enough and then we need to do something or spiritually or materialistically all our life we spent on this that we need to do something with not enough but if we try now is like this just is enough but it's also doesn't mean that you don't have goals, you don't uh want to attain anything. It doesn't mean you do this but without craving an attachment. You do this as a fun you know like as some kind of creative journey know okay I want to create this if I create this but without craving if if it will not work it will not work but without craving you know and attachment. Yeah. H so sweet. I have this funny question I ask people sometimes. They say, "Did you create the universe?" They say, "Well, no." I say, "Okay, then then how do you know it's not working?" Like, why do you need to fix it? Who put you in this position that you have to fix the universe? No. These things come up. Is that your job to change it? You then create it? Yeah.

Yeah, it's kind of coming back to seeing that that this life is a gift. Everything's here. Everything's happening. There's nobody doing it. Everything is working. And why not to take it as a gift?

Even the challenges and the pain even Yes. Especially like if we take this like we call bad things as a gift is also very interesting then like your all perspective on life really changes well like of course some cases is like really difficult some it's not possible but most of our everyday challenges you even you know something bad happened really thank you actually Like when we become mangor nan like in very beginning we have this very strong teaching you know like first year we always bow whatever whoever say to us whatever like and sometimes people say bad things or some like do makes us to do some stupid jobs in our mind stupid jobs or whatever and you just wow you always wow this even like this simple thing like really teach a lot you know whatever happened you just as well.

Okay. Um what would be your best advice for spiritual seekers who is maybe just waking up just starting to recognize this inner peace or inner beingness. Let's talk from this place. What would be your advice?

So first don't make anything special. Don't make that you know awakening uh awakening is good not awakening is bad. Don't make even this because we start oh is now is good before was bad. Don't even don't don't make anything special. Now you on this journey journey just being just experience completely. If something arise just let them arise. Don't fight with them. Just see them and then be then they go. Then you have peace. Then again maybe no peace. But as much as possible bring awareness even in this mundane things like every day what we call like some you know boring jobs or some kind of things what we need to do but it's not spiritual things you know even in these things we make we bring awareness and then it's also become spiritual every single thing every single thing what we do or we sell potatoes in the in the market or we make cakes or whatever with or we take care of children every single thing can be spiritual

you just completely there 100% if you are with children you 100% for them with other people what you do is all every single single thing is already practice actually spiritual practice every single thing even like thing we don't like so don't make special and awareness as much as possible in every moment by moment aware what you are doing now what you are doing now

thank you so much thank you very asked actually I talked I I would like to listen more what you say but I talk too much. No, you're just right. Everything I say what needs to be said I said is said. It's not too much. It's not too little. We are here. Yeah. Yes. We are here. Just our faces are here. But there is something that comes through and speaks and there's something that lands somewhere who's listening who's opening to hear it. Yeah. It's a beautiful dance. It's a gift.

And thank you so much womba for sharing from your heart from your unique place because not so many people are choosing this path so strongly to dedicate their lives to become a nun. That's like a in my view it's a worry of of truth like saying no to saying no to what is not important.

Such such an honor to have you here and thank you so much. And if if you have any last words or something you want to share that maybe I didn't ask you thought

and just experience completely every moment as much as possible. experience this.

Yes. Yes to that. And thank you everyone for watching, for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode. Bye for now.