Seeing Through the Self Illusion: 8-Week Experience

In this episode, I speak about the upcoming 8-week guided experience and what it is really about.

The enrollement is open untill the 20th of April. 

More info here. 

https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/ 

There is no shortage of information about awakening. You can read, listen, understand more and more. And still, something may feel unsettled.

Here we look in a different way.

Not at ideas, but at direct experience.

I share how this process is structured, what you will be exploring, and why a simple, precise looking can open something that thinking cannot reach.

This is not about becoming something new.

It is about seeing clearly what is already here.

If you feel a quiet readiness, you will recognise it.

And if there are questions, doubts, or hesitation, you are welcome to meet them here as well.

Music by Valdi Sabev. In loving memory and gratitude for the music he shared.

Transcript

Ilona 0:00

Awakening isn't about becoming someone new. It's about seeing through what you are not. You are listening to Awakening Now, a podcast for those on the journey of seeing what is real and living from that recognition. This is episode number 126. Seeing through the self-illusion eight-week experience. My name is Owana Tsunaite. I am a guide, an author, and co-creator of the Liberation and Leash community. And if you are in the process of awakening, the space is for you. For the past 14 years, I have been guiding and supporting seekers in discovering peace and freedom through direct experience. In this episode, I share a recording of a live meeting where I talk more about the structure of the eight-week experience. And here we explore how seeing unfolds through direct looking. And if you have been circling around this for a while, you're welcome to join the course, the doors are opening today. Just want to acknowledge you for being here. Thank you so much. I appreciate that you are here with me, with the group, and thank you for showing up. And this is the space to explore, to open, to open the questions, Pandora boxes, and really to to inquire what is going on in actual experience. For many years, I didn't know what I was looking for. I just knew I was looking for something, anything, just not what was happening. That seemed like it wasn't enough. And I didn't know why I was looking, what I was looking for. I knew word enlightenment, but I had no idea what I was. I knew that mushrooms only are showing the way, and that the home is here. So the difficulty was to find that home in everyday life. I thought it was some kind of state. So it literally was like a fish looking for water, knowing that there is water somewhere. No, no, here's you know, too simple. But somewhere out there, look at that. There is some kind of thing called water. How to get there? Which way to swim to find water? So that was my seeking this. Oh, they know something I don't. And it was a confusing time because I had days where I would just collapse and cry all day, not coming out of bed, because life sucks. Everything sucks, everything's horrible. Nothing is as it should be. something, anything. Just show me the way. Everything arrived on time, basically. And this one question that opened the doors was is there Ilana running the show? And it seems such a small question, but it's such a such a deep, deep seeing with that. Is that an image in the head? Is that what I am? Is that a thought? Is that a character in the movie? Is there Ilana at all? And then this supposedly entity inside the body is running the body and running life and making life happen. And that question opened something for me that ended this looking, ended this desperation to find the truth, but opened up a new playground, a new field, a new ex new way to see experience. Yes, there is a shift. That's correct, there is a shift, but it may be hiding in the tiniest little detail, like tiniest little question, and it's not something that needs to bring up a huge experience, you know. Like if you go and take some ayahuasca or magic mushrooms or whatever, and you have an experience, and it seems like oh, that experience is it. This is what what I need to abide in, or what I need to arrive to. But that experience is gone, the knowing remains the knowing that here now is it. And if the mind comes in and says, No way, this cannot be this simple. That is just not thinking it, fighting it, resisting it. Don't want the simplicity. That only means that there is so much investment in the seeking. And the bigger the res the resistance to the simplicity, the more energy is going into that resistance. The less energy is is available to enjoy life. So yes, it's simple, it's not easy, but it's simple. The difficulty is to, you know, what to do with that resistance, how to how to step out of that mind. And then the question is how to see things as they are, with the idea that this, what is being here now, should look different or be different. This is not it. So the simplicity is that life is already happening. What is here is here, it's nothing different. This though needs to catch up because it has a small tiny image, a precious, my precious, that doesn't want to let go because of all these ideas about how this should look like that, and then when we look at this, that is just not good enough. It's not the same, it's not the same like somebody else said, or what I read in a book or my mushroom experience, and then we keep looking for this to fit to show up as that, and keep crying about it because it's it's not going to, and that's the pain of the seeker trying to fit reality into an image rather than taking that image out and just like a mosquito, take it away. Like literally, what's actually here? Yes. There is something happening, but there is also being here or knowing of this experience. And that's the water for the fish. Yeah, but it's so easy to talk about this when you already know, when you already see it. It's it's not easy from a place of um seeking or looking trying, running away. And the recognition happens when it happens. Spontaneously unplanned, can make it happen. And maybe it's already happened, but it's not recognized, so it's like a two layers to recognition to know and to know that you know. But what we can do is to ask questions and look differently, and look in the in your own experience, what is actually true for you, not what book says, but what is actually here, and that triggers something that triggers questioning and doubt, and maybe confusion, chaos, not getting it, not understanding anymore. But that's good, that's the opening out of the rigid thinking of I know how it is, I know how this should be. Into wow, everything I know is learned from others. All the knowledge I have is useless at this point, but here it is my experience. Color, sound, sensations, thoughts, feelings, everything's here. It's available, it's not hiding and it's not hidden, it's just a matter of shifting attention, and then something comes into view differently, and this thing or this no-self illusion of no-self, self-illusion, illusion of self, shows up in so many different ways and in so many different situations that it needs to be seen from all these different angles again and again and again until the it clicks. But having a glimpse is already a huge step. Now it's just widening, widening the hole in the belief system. And when it's clear, it's clear, it's obvious, it's not like anything new or anything unusual or anything uh out of ordinary. It's ordinary. It's so ordinary that it's always been here. It was only covered by this tiny view, tiny image, how it should be, all the expectations, fears, resistances. But even that is happening in this whole white space of being. So it's a shift from like this, it's a shift from looking through the glasses to looking at the glasses. Yeah, there needs to be some distance, right? And when you look at the glasses, this is still there, the view is still there, but now we can see what we are looking through, and by this, this is a representation of identity. We're looking at everything through identity. But now, if we just take it off a little bit and see what is really what it really is, what is this identity? What is it made of? Now we can look from different angles and see that it's thoughts, images, stories, behaviors, patterns, conditioning, habits, hopes, everything that we call me is not what you are, and yet you are you're here, yeah. So knowing that this is not easy, even though it's simple, I was working for literally a year. Yeah, I started last last April. That was the first thing I I want to create the course. I want to I want to create this structure where people can go through each module or each idea or each angle so that whoever is looking for this can see it. Yeah, and it took me a year to to arrive to this day where I can say it's done, the doors are opening tomorrow. Tomorrow is like, yep, decision time. If it's for you, it's for you. If it's not for you, walk away. That's absolutely your inner knowing, and I want to just quickly um share, share the structure what it's going to be, just so that um it gives you an idea. So the structure is there will be recorded lessons each week released once a week. So we have one week to work on this one module, and then the modules are gonna be released a few days before a live meeting. So you get your lessons, you go through the recordings, you look because they're uh they're just pointers, exercises, metaphors, everything to help you to look in your own experience. But of course, you on your own, you can do it, you don't need the group meetings, but it it is so helpful to come with a group like like here today and just bring your questions, bring your notice and share. So every week we're gonna have a a meeting, and plus it will be a community in a in a shape of forum, yeah, and where we can connect with each other, share what we find, and get help when needed. So it's a it's a close community. I haven't done this platform before, so it's new for me too. Um you're welcome to join. And people who are here and you've already done the course, of course, you're welcome to join and do it again if you like, and meet other new people coming in. They are part of this already, just briefly to tell you what kind of modules are there. Okay, right. We start from um where are you now and where are you going? And this is deep dive into this um uh secret identity and looking how identity is formed and what is your actual story, what that what is the narrative, what are emotions and behaviors that come with a secret identity. So it's really good to start. From knowing where you are and where you want to get. Then in the module two, we're going to explore what is going on in the mind and what are the enemies within. Because there is a war going on, a resistance. This is no good, that's no good. I want more of this, I want less of that. And then we we feel that in a file. So we're going to examine all these enemies and see maybe they are not enemies, but friends in disguise. In the module three, we are going to return to the illusion of identity again from a different angle. After that, we are going to look at the language itself, which which surprisingly and not so is very helpful for many people because at this point it all starts making sense how the language is actually creating that illusion and how to see that this I is not really an entity that makes things happen, but it's just part of language itself. In the module five, we are going to explore the doer. I am drinking tea. But what is that doer actually controlling? And how is it doing that? So this is a whole whole long exercise to explore your experience, how this doer comes in and shows up. And in the module six, we explore the mind, the thoughts, the mind screen, and everything, what's going on there. And in module seven will be about wounding, trauma, and deep looking. So here we'll introduce deep looking and give you some guidelines of how you can do that on your own, which is so helpful to help to move the energies, emotions, repressed stuck stuff. And the module eight is the ultimate question: who am I really? And we spend time with that. So overall, over these eight weeks, we are going to look at this trick or cosmic joke from so many different angles that little by little it all starts making sense. And I'm not promising big experiences or massive realizations or abiding, but more like your questions, the pieces of puzzle falling into place, and little by little there's a different view. You start looking at everything from a different place. And um the sessions of meetings will be held in at two times. One is going to be on Saturday, and one on Sunday. Saturday at the same time, like we are meeting today, and on Sunday it will be in my early morning, so it's more for the other side of uh the globe. So everyone who wants to come to the meetings can find a better time for you. And yeah, that that will be the structure. Your homework, your work on your own, working with the videos. The videos, each module is about 90 minutes each. So it's a lot of material recorded. There are slides, and there's there are also transcripts, so everything you need. And you also will need um a journal to write what you notice, to go deeper with your questions, and the group to connect, people making friends on the path. It's also very, very helpful. So that's it. And the doors are opening tomorrow morning, and they will be closing Sunday night. Whoever is ready and feel the call, the poll, it feels right. Very welcome. Very welcome. I'm so excited to be able to offer this and share with you. Okay, so thank you so much. I appreciate you, all of you. Uh you have questions, noticings or want to share something, please. Let's let's open the conversation. Hi Natalia, please.

Speaker 1 27:08

Hi Lona, can you hear me? Yes, hi everyone. Hi, I guess um you're gonna uncover it all in the course, so all these questions um we're asking, right? But I want to ask anyway. You were talking about the experience on mushrooms. So I had a lot of experiences like this with ayahuasca and mushrooms, and I had this amazing sense of clarity and presence and direct knowledge, and um it's lasted like a couple weeks after that, and um after that I felt like a whale coming, you know, over me, and very gradually, and um my internal dialogue uh was more intense than before, actually. It's like um all this time I was quiet and present and um clear, and then all the dialogue was waiting kind of in line to come when I'm out. So um I feel like when I'm meditating, I'm reaching a certain state of presence and clarity, which is very similar to my experiences with medicine, but in my everyday life, it's very hard to stay in this uh state of presence and clarity. So I just wonder what tools, if they exist, is possible to use to stay present um in everyday life when you're connecting with people, when you're doing things, um, because I feel like I'm completely lost in my world, internal world, um when I'm acting. So it's like when I'm meditating, I'm reaching certain state of this amazing states when you you just don't want to stand up, you just want to be there, just sit like for hours. But when I am in everyday life, I I'm not there at all. So um I just wonder how to bring it into my everyday life.

Ilona 29:38

What if there's nothing wrong with your everyday life?

Speaker 1 29:44

Nothing wrong with my everyday life, yeah. I believe so, yeah, but um, I want I want more focus, more presence. Okay.

Ilona 29:56

Um yeah, I hear you, because it seems like that state is so nice, it could last forever. I would like that, but the states come and go, you know, you go to sleep every night, rest, you eat, it's a different state, you work, that's a different state, you meditate, that's a different state, so it's not like one state all the time, but what you are saying is how to how to be more present to whatever state is here, and that means that there are a lot of unfinished businesses here, meaning there are things repressed, things denied, things I don't want rejected, I want to fix, I want to avoid, I want to get rid of. So, unless these energies are resolved, then there is gonna be noise in the system. So the way is just becoming conscious of what's going on, meaning you are looking in your own experience. Let's say you are sitting here for a little bit, and then you start noticing which narrative kicks in. What is it saying? And instead of denying it or repressing it or getting rid of it, you look at what's actually going on there, like meeting that pain, meeting that longing or desire or whatever is here that the narrative is telling about. It's an unfolding. So these thoughts that show up, they're not random. They're just saying that there is something still here that wants your attention. And when you give it attention, it opens up. But this is more more the what I use the deep looking for. Recognition is one thing, to see that everything is happening by itself. Now what to do with that, how to meet that because it's the relationship with what's happening by itself is the trouble. So it is helpful to to see all these identities that are playing out, and then go in and see what's the pain, where's the hurt, but it's still looking for your attention to heal to resolve. The energy tools.

Speaker 1 32:54

So I'm actually looking into it, but um it's just patterns, some kind of patterns, habits. Um I'm noticing, but they're not going away.

Ilona 33:09

Do you notice that you want them to go away?

Speaker 1 33:14

I want them to go away, but that's the pattern still there.

Ilona 33:17

That is the pattern. Fighting it.

Speaker 1 33:24

The pattern that because I wanted it's a pattern.

Ilona 33:27

Yeah, wanting it to go away is the pattern to look at. Okay. Like if I hear my mind starting to talk something and it doesn't stop, and I feel that resistance is to that thought pattern, it's the resistance is the first thing to look at. And agree, I don't like this. Just acknowledging it. Just a tiny little thing, just acknowledging resistance and agreeing with it. Okay, Natalia.

Speaker 1 34:16

Yes, um another question. Uh um, you were talking about how we are glued to our personality, our identity. So all those patterns and um and dialogue, this is what glue me into this personality, my identity, right? So um by looking into that, I am helping myself to kind of to separate myself, right? To separate whatever me, I don't know how to say not me, but whatever I am from this personality, right?

Ilona 35:07

A little bit different because what you are is not a personality and nothing sticks to it.

Speaker 1 35:15

No, I mean, like um, what I am I understand that what I am is not personality, but I I am with my attention glued to personalities that what I'm seeing um and feeling. So I just wonder what the tools, what's the way, how to unglue myself from this personality.

Ilona 35:43

Okay, then you look at what is the clue made of. What is the clue? The assumption is that this personality is sticking to me. What is the clue? How is it sticking? Here we go. This is a place to inquire. The assumption is that the personality is sticking to me. How is it sticking?

Speaker 1 36:21

Where I'm where I am look looking at okay.

Ilona 36:28

If I say that this this top is my identity and it's sticking to my body, it's not. It's not. But if I assume that it's sticking, then I'm going to try to unstick it. But it's not sticking already. There's no glue. There's nothing holding it here. The idea that there is sticking is the thing to question. Like really opening up and seeing what is actually going on here. 'Cause the assumption is in the question already saying that it's sticking. How is this personality sticking to you?

Speaker 1 37:27

I guess it's uh my identification with the form and with the thoughts.

Ilona 37:33

Yeah. Are you a form and a thought? Are the thoughts sticking to you? It feels like yeah, I cannot. Which thought is sticking to you?

Speaker 1 37:53

Many are many thoughts.

Ilona 37:56

No, they just come and go. The thought sticky is also something that comes and goes.

Speaker 1 38:05

Yeah, but they never ends.

Ilona 38:08

Yeah, but it still doesn't make them sticky. Well, they stick. It's just like wind, you know. If you go outside and the wind is blowing in your face, would you say that wind is sticking to my face because it's there? No, it's just sensation.

Speaker 1 38:24

Right, but if I'm focused on the wind, then it will feel like it's stick to me.

Ilona 38:29

Uh-huh. That's interesting. Never heard that before.

Speaker 1 38:37

Maybe some leaf.

Ilona 38:51

Yeah, there's this there is an assumption that there is some one or something or some entity here that identity sticks to But what does it hang on to? Where's the hook? Can you repeat it, please? Where is the hook? Where is the identity identity hanging on?

Speaker 1 39:30

I don't know, it's very hard to answer this question.

Ilona 39:42

Maybe there is no hope. Yeah. The answer is staring in the face. But to recognize the answer is a little bit sometimes a little bit tricky because there's nothing there.

Speaker 1 40:07

Yeah, it's all in my head.

Ilona 40:10

Thoughts about thoughts about thoughts, thoughts about identity sticking to me, and that's just thoughts about thoughts about thoughts.

Speaker 1 40:19

Yeah, because I'm trying to understand very hard. So this is on my way. It feels like thank you.

Ilona 40:31

You're good. Okay, I'm just gonna look at the messages. Uh-huh. Paul is asking the course sounds great, but I'm not seeking anymore. Would it still be good for me? Um not necessarily. This is really for people who are looking to get that know-self inside. If if there is a doubt, there is uh confusion about it, then yes, but if it's all clear, it's all clear. It will be another experience for deep looking, which will address all kinds of uh more emotional energy stuff, whatever is happening. So maybe that will be more useful or helpful for people who already see it. So okay. Uh Nick saying, sorry, but I cannot unmute. How many people will be in the group? I don't know. I don't know. I didn't put a number or limit. Whoever wants to come, please come. If it's five, good. If it's 55, it's also good. And I'm like, Paul, I'm not seeking anymore, but the big cleanup is happening. A lot of tense trauma energy is coming up, and it would be wonderful to have some company on this point with people experiencing the same for sure. Yeah, because it's okay. This um seeing through the self-illusion has got many things to clear up, and as the space opens, stuff starts coming up to be cleared. So definitely it's good to have uh a community or friends or something to to help and be with. Um again, if you feel like this is for you, it's great. If not, uh, we'll be opening deep looking soon for people who want to explore and clean up. Okay, um, hi Swan. Hello Swan.

Speaker 2 42:53

Just a second.

Ilona 42:55

Oh, here you are.

Speaker 2 42:57

Yeah, I'm walking around Tallinn at the moment.

Ilona 42:59

Tallinn!

Speaker 2 43:00

I thought I thought it would take two minutes to uh say hello.

Ilona 43:05

Great to see you. Still traveling?

Speaker 2 43:08

Yeah, basically, yeah. So yeah, what uh came to me is like it's really about uh giving up the fighting with your emotions, you know. Allow yourself some form of emotion, and even though I know that right now I'm walking around and I'm exhausted, I'm I have negative thoughts and uh unpleasant emotion, but that's not even the problem. It's uh like emotions, you don't have to do anything with them, they have to they have to be just digested like food or something. I don't know what I'm saying here. I I kind of should stop walking, it's kind of

Ilona 44:02

Well, emotions come to be felt.

Speaker 2 44:06

Yeah, so there's this emotion still unpleasant, and uh I said to myself it's okay if I never have fun again, if I never feel uh happy, uh it's okay, you know. You you can stay something like that.

Ilona 44:24

Yeah, but emotions are are moving, it right. Emotion is something comes up and goes, unless it gets stuck. And when it gets stuck, there are lots of stories about how it's wrong, how I'm wrong, how it shouldn't be happening, that's stuck, or even repressing it, denying it, and pretending that it's not there, and then still there won't be things coming up, exploding and addictions and all kinds of stuff, and then it becomes an identity, like uh it's your clear to me, it's clear to me, I can't be an emotion, but uh yeah, you quickly get and you become like an identifier through resistance to the emotion or something, and yeah, it's it's it's all very silly, really. But um that emotion is something that is felt in the body, yeah. And you you see it, you know it's here, it's not you. It's moving energy. It's not you, it's not where you are, it's not even yours. It's like wind. You feel it. You say it's me. It's energy.

Speaker 2 45:48

No, I don't say it's me, it's something like I identify as a resistance, I think, somehow.

unknown 45:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2 45:58

That that's why they they I'm not I'm I'm like this happy uh person full of energy, not as exhausted, tired, uh negativity, something like that. That is going on, I guess.

Ilona 46:16

Yeah, it's hard to fight.

Speaker 2 46:20

Yeah, I'm exhausted, I can't fight anymore. Like more and more often I just sit down and say, fuck it, you know. It's okay, you know. I you are here. Can't get rid of you. Just feeling the mind is wrong, the mind is lying, the mind is saying it shouldn't be here, it should be different. Constant shut up.

Ilona 46:45

It's so funny when the mind comes in and says this shouldn't be here. It's like looking at this image of yeah, yeah, this is right, the reality is wrong. I'm not gonna give up this for reality.

Speaker 2 46:58

Uh-huh.

Ilona 47:01

But then you look at this, this is wrong, this shouldn't be happening. If it's here, it's already here. It's not asking for anyone permission. And thing is you're already feeling it, plus the resistance.

Speaker 2 47:22

There's a lot of energy in the emotions and okay. I I realize this is just the energy I need, and that what I'm looking for has to be here now. Can't be in the future, it can't be in the past. Nobody's looking at the past, but people always look at the future, you know. But the future is just a thought, it doesn't really exist.

Ilona 47:42

Yeah, but now this is here, it's already here.

Speaker 2 47:46

Just too horrible to look at it. It's so horrible. That's what the mind says, it's just too disgusting, too.

Ilona 47:54

Really?

Speaker 2 47:54

The feeling is just too gross, it's too nasty.

Ilona 47:58

Oh, oh, well, can you say thank you, Mike? Thank you, thank you for protecting. You're such a great friend protecting me from all these nasty emotions.

Speaker 2 48:09

Oh, thank you.

Ilona 48:11

And how is it working? Ask the mind. How is it working? Resisting, protecting help.

Speaker 2 48:26

How is it working? It works, but it's uh on the it has high cost, lack of energy and yeah and feeling small.

Ilona 48:42

So really it doesn't work.

Speaker 2 48:46

No, it doesn't really work now.

Ilona 48:49

He wants to hold on to this. Oh not gonna let go.

Speaker 2 48:56

I'm a bit confused right now, like I mean the confusion is there. I'm not the confusion. I'm not a thought, so technically I'm not a mind either.

Ilona 49:14

Oh, you notice you are here? Are you here?

Speaker 2 49:20

Yes, I'm here.

Ilona 49:21

Yeah, me too. Okay. And all this that is moving, it's just passing through. Whatever is moving is passing through. Emotional wave, the thought wave, it's just passing through.

Speaker 2 49:48

Ridiculous, I think the situation and comes the thought, it creates an emotion, and then the thought thought fight the emotion. Some kind of vicious circle.

Ilona 50:05

Yeah. Yeah. You see that? It's not you. Are you doing it?

Speaker 2 50:15

No, I'm not doing it, at least not consciously.

unknown 50:18

Wow.

Speaker 2 50:19

Maybe subconsciously.

Ilona 50:21

Okay, you said some consciously it's happening.

Speaker 2 50:26

It's happening, yeah. I don't know who's doing it, who's doing the weather, you know, who's doing the breathing. Who's doing the thinking? I'm not doing the thinking. It's like on a clear moment if I would sit down, I know all of this, but it just overtakes you again and again.

Ilona 50:50

It's because he wants your attention. He wants you to stop fighting it.

Speaker 2 50:55

And and let the energy through Yeah, there's still some holding on, still not like I mean I can see it, like still like keeping the emotion at a distance somehow.

Ilona 51:25

Okay, good to notice that. Let's notice that. Oh yes. Let's keep the motion at a distance. And yet you are feeling it. Whatever you are feeling is here already.

Speaker 2 51:56

All right. So I want to give somebody else the time to join enjoy Town Hall Square here. Oh, it's beautiful. Okay, thank you. It's always good to talk to you, you know. I I use something I learned from you this. I see you, you know, you I do it by myself, you know. Hello, in emotion, I see you. What do you want to tell me? And then something comes up as well.

Ilona 52:33

Yeah, talk to the resistance as well. Because resistance is also here, right?

Speaker 2 52:45

Okay, bye-bye for now.

Ilona 52:46

Okay, Swan, lovely to speak to you again. Okay, I have a message from Paul. My mother was a narcissist, and I was with a malignant-covered narcissist wife for 35 years. Trauma and thought from this are still sticky, and I think it will always be. But these these experiences, these memories don't need to continue to be painful. It's more like acknowledgement and honoring your experience. But the more you you feel what you truly feel and release them from the body, the more there is space. And there is no such a thing as always. Always is an idea. Everything changing and moving, and that's one of the laws of nature, the impermanence. So with with um trauma and difficult experiences, everything can heal. It's just a question how how willing and ready are you to heal from that sometimes that identity of the hurt one or wounded one or a wronged one is so precious that we don't want to let it go. But it's very healthy to look at that and see what is there that needs that story or needs to be holding on to this narrative. And of course it's easier, easier said than done. And it there are good days, there are bad days, there are horrible days in this journey. But it's not endless. And um people like like the narcissists, they also are doing their role in your own evolution, in your own growth. They're teaching something about you. And the damage that these relationships do should not be denied or dismissed. It's it's real. But there is also your inner power to heal. And there is nothing wrong with you or with your experience or what you went through. I'm not saying these people are right. But what you had to experience, your experience is yours. And what needs to happen here to be free with that It's it's your path, it's your journey. See if that works. Yes, I can hear.

Speaker 3 58:30

Yeah. Uh yeah, it it's got really difficult with the um the of X-wife, or surely to be X-wife. Um the probability with the of the girl, um it's a real healing sort of um proby ongoing the damage um not just to me, to the children we are doing it it's all very um involved a lot of uh other people as well. Um the sort of entanglement uh which we pick up through life uh very um very difficult to let go of. You know, but I do understand when I appreciate you know the uh uh the wisdom and your the words what you're telling. But it it it it it's also uh permanently intricately involved uh you know right the the tentacles what like the creatures um you know it it um severing really well lucky it sounds like you are uh getting away from them at the first time. Yeah, oh I'm really loud. Yeah, I'd I'd well I'd I'd like to think I am almost failed, but the um because of the involvement with the children and things like that. Um it it it's just I'll always be bound to that thing in certain respect. You know, I'll I'll never be completely clear of it because uh as much as I'd like to be, we're still sort of actively involved with the children in particular.

Ilona 1:00:36

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:00:41

It is difficult.

Ilona 1:00:44

It is difficult, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:00:47

And you know, I I'll I have the the the the note of uh we and and uh you know very clean to the and uh and know it, not my protocol, but still you know I'd feel that them connecting through the body. Uh I just I don't think I'm connected, I'll be able to ever give up.

Ilona 1:01:17

Well, that's that's something to challenge because I think never or always will be here, never cannot get rid of that's the identity speaking.

Speaker 3 1:01:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ilona 1:01:33

Because sometimes believe it or not, people come to me. So with this hidden desire for me to confirm how broken they are and how they are unfixable, but that's just identity going around looking for proof over and over and over again that there is something wrong with them, and that story is not wanting to get away so easily or so quickly. But this is what we what we're gonna be looking at the course during the course, all these hidden ideas about um these identities that don't want to be um dismantled, they want to survive. So I'm broken one, I will never be fixed. That is just part of the narrative and part of this identity that without it you're still you, but with it, you're suffering.

Speaker 3 1:02:56

Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that it sounds like I don't have some more work to do.

Ilona 1:03:02

Oh always, me too, everyone. Till the end of days. We are here, we are here.

Speaker 3 1:03:14

Yeah, well, yeah, uh I think maybe I would benefit from uh from your course as well, and Aiona.

Ilona 1:03:23

Well, you're welcome to join.

Speaker 3 1:03:25

Yeah, yeah. Okay, thanks. I'll let someone else take it down now.

Ilona 1:03:35

Um another message how to see all this, how to see all the thoughts, especially the I am separate thought. I'm suffering on this separateness, but I can't find the thought or believe about that. An awakened friend of me can see um many thoughts. I think this is the key to see them, but I haven't the ability in the same way. Have you? A recommendation? Yes, this thought I am separate. It's a very interesting thought. That's an assumption that is already I am separate. But from what? Laurian, do you want to comment online? I mean with a microphone, uh, we can chat. Maybe Florian is not even here now. Okay. Yeah, but this assumption I am separate. But from what? How do you know you are separate? Is it just because the thought is saying that or is there any other evidence in actual experience that you are separate? Let's say if you look at a tree, yeah, what is a tree? You have an image in the mind of the tree, and you can say there are there is a trunk, there are branches, there are leaves, there are roots, and of course a leaf is separate from the roots. But is it? Does language naming these parts of this system make them separate? Does language chop things into pieces? Because if we look at the tree, we don't see The roots, we don't see the minerals, we don't see the rain and the sun that shapes and part of it. We say the tree is separate from what? From nature, from sunlight, from earth. It's only the language that creates that idea. And then we try to find the way to wholeness. But it's the language here that needs to be questioned. Is my hand separate from my foot? Well, yeah, it's a different form. It's on the same on the same body. But how how can I connect this hand to my foot? A cat. They don't work like that. They already connect. So better than asking how to not be separatist what's already here. How is this already one whole and complete? And find evidence for that. Explore. I missed you. I am, how are you? Okay. Are you?

Speaker 4 1:08:42

Good. Um yeah, I guess um, if I would ask anything, it would just be so, in other words, over the week you send out like like one or two videos of exercises for us to do on our own. And then there's like a meeting with you like this, like once a week to discuss. And okay, is it feasible that someone wakes up on such a course, or is that is it too much to expect, or is it just to expect to just do some research and have some glimpses that'll be kind of a proper expectation, or it all depends on individual and how much how much how much work has been done before.

Ilona 1:09:40

Also, what's the readiness? How much burning desire there is, but it's it's not like a promise of some grand awakening, it's more a support for you to look in your own experience so that you can find little bits and pieces that fall into place. So we did a course last um I think August, August, September, for eight weeks, and some people are here in a group today from the course, and everyone had different uh experiences. Somebody said nothing changed, but then other people had some openings and realizations, so it's really individual, it's just a space to explore together. Also, when you are getting stuck, somebody can ask right questions or different questions that you wouldn't ask, and moving with the group is also like building up momentum or energy because you are in touch with each other and your energy is multiplying because somebody else's question may open something for you, just like in this kind of conversation, but more focused. Thank you.

Speaker 4 1:11:17

Um, yeah, I think I kind of feel like I um kind of come and and hear different things, it kind of drips in. Um yeah, I don't know. I still feel maybe there's not that burning thing or something. I don't know. I don't feel like I'm maybe fully ready or something, but um, but it feels like um, yeah. Anyway, that's just on a more personal note. I think it feels like I'm kind of feeling what this like getting a sense of what it even is talking about, you know. Um, because there's so many ideas out there about what is there to be found in terms of truth and terms of happiness, it's so it's been very confusing to me over the lifetime. So um so hearing what you say and hearing how you answer people giving me I I don't know, I think it's maybe creating a readiness or an understanding. I don't know, something like this. And um, I think there's also a lot of, as you said, unwinding first to the system that's calm enough to um receive it and see it. So we'll see not this round and maybe another, but yeah, that's kind of just the thoughts that are coming to me. But yeah, thank you.

Ilona 1:12:37

There will be another round, of course. This is um just the beginning.

Speaker 4 1:12:45

Yeah, but always always good to be with you and hear from you. So thank you so much.

Ilona 1:12:49

Thank you, Tami. Wonderful to connect again. Um, where we can find information about the course, okay. Um, it's on my website. Uh, we'll put a link here now. Okay, here's the link. You want to save it, just click on it and you can look later. Because once the zoom is um closed, this link will disappear. All right, so all I'm saying here, the doors are open, uh, it's for three days. If it's your time, it's your time. If not, there will be another. And I would love to have a wonderful group to explore together to support you in any way, and for you to find friends in that group, so you can support each other, it's just literally walking each other home like Ram Destiny to somebody. I don't okay. So we can sit up for five minutes just in silence if you like. Just being here, being present. Thoughts, emotions, sensations, sound everything's here, everything's welcome. And it's okay to rest. All is well and take the scene what I'm just going to say now. Sveilda. I appreciate you. I appreciate you're here. Thank you for coming. And allow yourself to appreciate you too. And all the struggles, all the lessons, all the experiences the path with the highs and the lows of difficulty. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the challenges. Thank you for what's here, thank you for what's coming. Yes, please. And thank you for showing up today. And I will see you in a month. In May. And maybe in the in the eight week experience. Thank you everyone. Bye now.