The Shift Is Much Closer Than You Think With Loch Kelly

In this episode of Awakening Now, Loch Kelly and Ilona Ciunaite explore awakening, nonduality, effortless mindfulness, and the subtle places seekers often become stuck after the first glimpse.

Loch shares a clear and grounded perspective on awakening as a shift of identity — from living as the separate self to recognizing awareness as primary. The conversation moves beyond concepts into embodiment, emotional healing, integration, and what it means to live from awake awareness in ordinary life.

Together, they speak about:
 – longing for “the shift”
 – glimpses that come and go
 – spiritual dissociation
 – pure awareness and embodiment
 – emotional healing after awakening
 – awareness-based living
 – interbeing and heart-mind
 – the difference between temporary states and true recognition

During the episode, Loch also guides several direct experiential glimpses live in the conversation.

This episode may resonate deeply with seekers who feel close to recognition, yet still pulled back into old identity, conditioning, and emotional patterns.

Guest: Loch Kelly
 Website: Loch Kelly Official Website
App: Mindful Glimpses App

Get 20% off your first year of Loch’s Mindful Glimpses app + a 14-day free trial:
https://mindfulglimpses.com/specialoffer/

Music by Valdi Sabev. In loving memory and gratitude for the music he shared.

Transcript

Ilona 0:01

You are listening to Awakening Now, a podcast for those in the process of awakening. This is episode 128. The shift is much closer than you think with Locke Kelly. My name is Ilona Tsunaite. I am a guide, an author, and co-creator of the Liberation Unleashed. For the past 14 years, I have been supporting seekers in discovering peace and freedom through direct experience. Today's conversation explores a part of awakening that is not often spoken about clearly. What happens after the first glimpse? Why do some seekers become stuck trying to return to an experience that has already passed? And how can awakening become embodied, lived, and integrated into ordinary life? Loch Kelly is a meditation teacher, psychotherapist, an author of Shift into Freedom and the Way of Effortless Mindfulness. In this conversation, we speak about awareness, embodiment, emotional healing, and the subtle difference between genuine freedom and dissociation. Locke also shares several guided glimpses during this conversation. And if you are longing for a shift or trying to understand why glimpses come and go, I think this conversation may speak deeply to you. Let's begin. Very, very warm welcome. Um when I looked into what you are talking about, it it resonates so much. And it's it's just maybe a few different words, different way. But it's so nice to meet somebody who is talking about the same in the same way. And um good I feel very grateful that you are here.

Loch Kelly 2:11

Yes, thank you. Anything anything you want to say about because it's such a big field, what we're talking about, awakening and yes, uh non-duality, and and so anything that particularly is the unique thing that we have in common.

Ilona 2:29

Okay, let's start from introducing you. And here we are talking with Loch Kelly, and he is an author on a couple of books. One of them is Shift into Freedom, and the other one is called Effortless Mindfulness. Just just these names are speaking to me that we are talking about the same thing, the shift into freedom through awareness. And I ask and I ask everyone who comes into my show, the first question is what is your definition of awakening? And by awakening, I mean the shift into freedom, shift into recognizing awareness. But I'd like to hear it in your own words. How do you see that?

Loch Kelly 3:18

Sure. Yeah, happy to um, you know, some people ask, what do I do? And I say I I talk about what can't be talked about, you know, because this is all beyond words, and so uh words are like pointers, and so certainly they're uh many different flavors. So even when I offer a glimpse or a pointer or a um a doorway into awakening, I can give language for it, and then the other person has an authentic experience, and then they have that shift, and then they describe it in their uh own direct experience with their own imperfect language. So so awakening, uh, but I I feel like uh rather than uh say, oh, it's all a mystery, or you'll know when you get there um that it is worth our conversation. So I'm so happy to be here uh to attempt to share this. So awakening um from and awakening to can happen spontaneously. Many people can have a spontaneous awakening, and then there is the potential to have a shift or a an awakening that is um pointed to or in invitation given. So the current constellation of consciousness that we all know, and pretty much most people agree um in the meditative consciousness uh contemplative world that there is this identity, the feeling I think, therefore I am, a kind of contracted um a pattern of thought, feeling, and sensation that feels like it sits in the middle of my head or in my body or emotional center, and then kind of looks out of my eye. So it is it's what I eventually call the e-function or the small self. And one of the unique things about awakening is you're awakening from the perspective that I am this, to being aware of this as a pattern or a part of you. Um, so there are some traditions of non-duality that say, oh, there's this initial ego function, or this pattern of personality is an illusion, but actually, I think it's actually as real as your hand is real, or as real as your digestion, or as real as your other senses are real, uh, which is ultimately relative, but relatively real. Uh, but it just shifts, you awaken from it being primary or central. I am this, I'm looking from this to oh, I'm aware of this, which is kind of the first um move of mindfulness, which is kind of a little mini awakening, stepping back and looking at, oh, wait a minute, this is I was looking from here, I was even watching my breath from my attentional small self. And now I shift up and like, wait a minute, what was the subject becomes an object. So it is, and then when you look even closer from awareness, you see, oh, it's not even an object, it's a pattern. It's moving, it's changing, it's dissolving, it's reforming. Um, it's almost like taking a microscope. It doesn't mean it's not real. If you look at your hand, you'll see your hand from your glasses, then you'll see your hand from a microscope, then you electron microscope, you all of a sudden it's uh cells and then atoms doesn't mean it's not cells and atoms. So it doesn't mean there's not a little functional personality, just like there's a hand. But the awakening to uh usually is that first awakening is is to this sense of almost a gap of like leaving the old and kind of being in this kind of sense of no-self, like oh, I'm not that self. There's there's you know, don't know mind or not knowing or not being or kind of organizing from thinking, feeling, sensation, but from a kind of uh awareness that is unconditioned, that has no conditioning. But then the key in I think the next few moves are to realize oh, wait a minute, I'm not that, but what am I? So there's an insight into who I'm not, awakening from, then awakening to is this gap of no self, don't know mind, no thing, no body. Then there's this awareness that uh is realized by itself. So it's not realized by the thinker, the knower that knows in a certain way of subject and object. It's actually that the effortless mindfulness or the effortless awareness is already and has always been awake to itself, as itself, and from itself, that then that realization um is this freedom, but it is also, and some people set up camp there in some of these non-duality uh perspectives. I am pure awareness, everything else is a movie. So there's this kind of uh stopping in some systems of, oh, I'm no self, or I'm a mindful witness, or I'm just pure awareness. And then the next move in this kind of Buddhist non-dual, more with Mahamudra Zokshan, is oh, the awareness and the aliveness are not two. So the awareness is like an ocean of awareness arising as this wave of this human. So the ultimate and the relative are not separate. It's not just leaving awakening from a dualistic mind, which some people say, oh, non-duality is not being dualistic, it's being I am pure awareness. There's nobody here named Locke. I go to the grocery store and things end up in my cart, which I've had a lot of people come to me and then they say, I think I'm awake, but my partner thinks I'm dissociated. And I'm like, Well, I'm let's explore that. Because you can get stuck halfway in this awakening from awakening to kind of emptiness, then awakening to pure awareness, then non-duality is ultimate and relative, or not to the inseparable pair of awareness and aliveness, of emptiness and form. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form, and then there is this new leadership from here. There's a new sense of identity. So ultimately, it's a shift of mind from thought-based mind to awareness-based mind, and then it's a shift of identity from ego identity to um a kind of presence or beingness. Um, Tik Nathan called it interbeing, because it's also connected to our body and to everybody. So that is an awakening. There's kind of a uh simultaneousness, a both and rather than going to a new duality, which some non-dual go and say, I am only pure awareness. And I keep saying, Well, what is this movie? What it what that seems like two things. So it is this simultaneous, it's not oneness, but it's not two-ness, but it's simultaneousness of this presence and this new sense of um what I call awake loving flow. So that's kind of the next stage, is that it's not only uh a kind of meditative, oh, I am nothing and no, now I'm everything, or now I'm interconnected, but then there begins to be a kind of rewiring to speech and talk and relationship and uh choice that is made from a sense of um presence or beingness or true nature, that it means the identity shift is now more embodied, and there's more of a a kind of a joy rather than an initial stage is kind of a neutrality. Like I am free, open, I am awake, and you'll see a lot, I am very awake, and then and and when you come back to your body, there's also this shift from presence to what I call heart-mind or open-hearted awareness, bodhicitta, that begins to see everyone and have a natural responsibility and ethic and integrity and kind of a joy of life. Um and and it becomes more fun and you become more free, and you can now start to heal some of the emotional content that has been repressed. So rather than just dissociating to pure awareness and being disembodied, as if that's freedom, that's the first stage, perhaps. But the real freedom is coming back home to the awareness being primary, but it's not other than, and it can't be hurt by now the healing of uh trauma or repressed contents or parts of you that are judgmental or dissociated or hurt, or so there's this kind of new uh flow, awake-loving flow and presence that um that becomes this amazing kind of joyous life. You wake up in the morning and you're like you feel like a kid on the first day of summer vacation, even if you have something boring to do.

Ilona 14:26

Wow, that was very thorough explanation. Thank you so much. So I I guess uh whoever is watching or listening, you're just gonna need to watch this again because it's so much packed, so powerfully packed in a such a short few minutes that it may take a little bit of time to to really get that. Oh she said.

Loch Kelly 14:52

Yeah, because I try to, you know, try to kind of explore the different unfolding. So in some ways, there's always awaken. So this is the beauty of this of this tradition, is that the premise is that the awakeness we're seeking is already always here within everyone, as everyone, not not just for special uh lucky few, not for Olympic athletes of meditation, but is equally available to literally almost like make a background foreground shift or a top or drop top, drop from head to heart space, and then open to the space, and then come back to the to the flow. So the the glimpse practices I do are just to to show and to begin to kind of tenderize and introduce people to who they are. And a glimpse is not just an experience, it's not a peak, you know. State the the word is meant to be an identity shift because it's right here. Um and then um then there's uh unfolding that in some ways is spontaneous. Um so that I'll I'll just say this little these little short what are called pith instructions from which I love because they're they're just kind of they kind of uh give what I just said in in three sentences or four sentences. So this uh Dzogchen pre-Tibetan uh teacher uh called Garab Dorje said there's three vital points directly recognize your true nature. So that's left open. There's many ways to do that, but that's turning it, turning around, not looking outside, not looking to thought, but directly recognize your true nature, and then decide from your true nature that it's true, that it's real, that it feels it feels more real. It's not a it's not a psychedelic experience, it's not a a state that's coming and going. You can you can be it and then it can get covered over, but you didn't lose it, and and you didn't because all you did, all it does is it gets covered over. But when you are primarily this true nature that's aware of the same, nothing, nothing's lost. Everything else is happening, chattering could be quieter, but it's because it's more spacious. So directly recognize your true nature, decide from here that it's true, and then proceed with confidence in the spontaneous unfolding. So you're proceeding, but it's spontaneously unfolding. So you're not doing it, but it's unfolding. So there's this getting from what's called familiarizing yourself with yourself and with and then taking it out for a walk, you know, take starting to talk to somebody, write an email, uh, you know, speak from here, you start to rewire your system. But that first move we can talk about for others. But I thought I would lay out the kind of what's called unfolding. It's not, you're not doing it, you're not creating it. There's this whole thing, well, you know, of the radical non-dualists where, well, there's nothing to do and there's nobody doing it, and you can't do anything, and there, and yet, you know, let's talk about it. Well, as soon as you say anything, even you say that, that's actually a pointing out instruction. So there's yes, that's a doing already. So it's kind of silly.

Ilona 19:04

Yeah, but it's all pointers, as I said in the beginning. It's all pointers, it's all pointers, yes, and there is something that either follows that pointer or not. It's not by doing, it's not by decision.

Loch Kelly 19:20

But I I create this podcast, not by the decider.

Ilona 19:24

I created this podcast because I have been working with seekers for so many years and I I know where they are, I know where they are stuck, I know where the struggles that they are going through in this process. And my intention is to give them different pointers and different from different people like yourself that would help them. And for example, recently I spoke to somebody who uh who is really uh eager and uh longing and really wanting to shift, wanting the shift, wanting the shift, and it's never the shift, somebody else has it, somebody else uh speaks from the shift, and and that wanting the shift is that really painful place where you know that that stage can last for years. And I would like to invite you to share your pointers to that particular place to these people who are just sitting here watching the video wanting the shift. And I know you have it. Let's hear it.

Loch Kelly 20:31

Yes, so I'm glad to share a few pointers and a few little glimpses. So in some ways, the initial uh shift is not deep, it's actually very, very close. It's not everyone's seat searching for something big or or like fireworks or like a big, but it just is a little, just a little background, foreground, just a little dropping, opening, including. So here's some here's a little inquiry that I kind of oh, did the sound go?

Ilona 21:12

Yeah, there was a glitch.

Loch Kelly 21:13

Yes, can you hear me hear me?

Ilona 21:15

Yeah, now it's okay. Yeah, okay.

Loch Kelly 21:20

Yes, so so a glitch. The the the the the that which was beyond words came in and just silence took over.

Ilona 21:29

Okay.

Loch Kelly 21:31

Don't do it. Silence, please. There's nothing. Yeah, so so um so you know, the premise, which I think most most um contemplative, meditative, awaken, even you know medit, you know, consciousness traditions agree that there is this pattern of uh identity. I think therefore I am. Or this small self or this ego center. And it makes sense, as I have said, that it's not a problem in its function. The ego function is very important. It's actually developmentally and like all animals, all mammals, it is trying to organize survival of this body-mind, of this body. So it's looking out. Once it goes from a dependent child, which is taken care of by adults, then this ego function develops. Well, you have to go outside and cross the street. So you need to know what a green light is and what a red light is. And that there's danger in a red light, because if you cross, there's these vehicles coming that could be dangerous. So you have to develop a separate body from other bodies and other things. This is not the problem. Dualism is not the problem. Dualistic functioning in the world continues to happen. It's just no longer where the choices are made from. But once you enter that information into the computer of the body-mind, just as in flow states, in people who are athletes and musicians, you know, you just learn it and now it's there. So it operates from a different identity. So currently, though, this um scanning for danger outside, scanning for danger inside, trying to solve a problem. Is there a problem out there? Is there a problem here? Is there a problem there? Is it stays central because we're trying to survive and thrive? So until that dynamic, so it's not just thought, it's it's instinct too. It's instinct and is using thought. Survive. What's this? Is there a problem? Do I need to uh protect myself here? Do I need to, there's a pain, little pain? Is it is there a knife in my arm that I need to take? So this problem solver, once you realize that the premise is, wait a minute, there's another aware, awake consciousness here that can be aware, like a Tai Chi master, of what's going on inside, what's going on outside. So that problem solver, what if that problem solver could just soften back? And then you just notice with awareness what you don't notice what you're aware of, but you start to turn and feel what is this non-thought-based awareness that's here. What what using awareness to feel itself, you just start to familiarize yourself. So the inquiry is based on this premise that this small self can soften back, drop, relax, and this foreground, this background awareness can become primary. Yeah, so this is the premise, and the inquiry is this. So just notice what is here now when there's no problem to solve. So just for now, not going one moment into the future, not needing to reference the past, but being fully aware, what's it like when the problem solver softens back, steps back, drops, and you begin to notice what's this that's aware. If you don't go to thought, if you don't go to sleep, you don't go to daydream, and just notice this wordless, aware, alert, timeless awareness, and then see what it's like not only to notice this awareness, but what's it like to rest as this awareness. And just noticing itself, let it notice itself, start to shift from something seemingly being aware of it to its now already aware by itself as itself. And as you rest as this and begin to aware be aware, notice what's the relationship of this pure alert awareness to vibration, movement, sound, sensation, feeling, thought, your body and the room. What if they're seamlessly like an ocean and wave just all happening to this new view and this new you so keep noticing back more than what's happening, keep feeling the presence of the awareness, aliveness that you're not doing and that needs no labeling. And if you needed to move your hand, you can move your hand from here. If you needed to intentionally use memory or thought and remember your phone number, just bring it to mind, and then just put your hand down and put thinking down. Just notice that thinking is one of the six senses that can be used as needed. But what's this feel like this new awake consciousness that doesn't reject anything and is in some ways ordinary just alert and extraordinary simple no big deal, just that kind of potential. Maybe that works, maybe that was helpful some people, and now the transition is you know, just to keep inviting any thinker or parts or you know, old self to just arise to this. So, so stay here. And now, as you kind of come back to like the tendency is like go right back to normal consciousness and go like, wow, that was a great experience. But it was like what if that could continue and the thought that was a great experience could arise to you, the awake consciousness. Oh, that was really great. Boy, I don't know if I could do that on Monday. Oh, that was maybe, I don't know if I got that. Maybe other people got it more. It's like, okay, all those thoughts and parts are rising. I don't need to get on the train or reform the old identity, but I don't need to stop them either. Because now you can invite them. Now they're, you know, there's they're not threatening anything, even if they're like, oh, I'm I think everyone else got that. I didn't get that. Oh, this is see that. Oh, here we go again with my not getting it. It was like, oh, welcome, little little part of me or constellation that feels less than, you know, and then you start to have this loving presence toward that pattern or that part or that. And then you just love that. Oh, I don't know if I got it. Well, it's okay. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but I got it. I'm I am it, I don't even get it. So, what was your experience of that?

Ilona 31:10

Extraordinarily ordinary.

Loch Kelly 31:14

Yes, normal good. See, just normal good, normal, normal, new normal.

Ilona 31:20

Normal, good, yeah.

Loch Kelly 31:21

Yeah, normal, good. That's it. See, that's beautiful language. See, it becomes poetic, yeah. So that's that's kind of, you know, obviously, I, you know, I played with how, you know, I learned as much from my students as as they learn from me. So I'm always like, did that what what happened? Where did you go? What what got you caught? Okay, let me redo this glimpse and let's language it this way or point this way, or make sure we, you know, so I've developed um these glimpses for people who are more auditory, more visual, more uh mental, more uh uh kinesthetic, more more start with body, more start with emotion, um, so that these are different doorways, so that the language matches where they're caught and then introduces them, brings them back to to that um to include everything. Because that's really those moves that I was, you know, in that glimpse, which is like a series, right? The problem solve, I am the problem solver. Oh, what's here if there's no problem? What if the problem? Okay, now there's you're aware of the awareness. Oh, but what if you were resting as the awareness? Boom. Aware of, aware as, and then aware from. So the key aware from is where this kind of non-duality is different. So most non-duality is still a witness consciousness. I am the awareness, aware of things that are changing and that are relative and that are illusion that my ego is coming and going. So it's still like I am the awareness, and there's a little detachment from the body and from the world, as if, because you can do that. You can go into pure awareness and observe, but well, what's the wait a minute, is are you the sky and these are birds and clouds, or are you the ocean? Okay, if I'm the ocean, what's the relationship between the awareness and the vibration, sound, sensation, thought, feeling, my body and the room, if they're not two? Oh, now I'm aware from the ultimate and relative um simultaneous non-dual presence that that that is within me and interconnected, so interdependent feeling of of interbeing.

Ilona 34:14

I like that word, yeah. Yeah, interbeing. How long have you been doing this? I know helping people.

Loch Kelly 34:33

Yeah, uh, you know, maybe 30 years now.

Ilona 34:36

Wow.

Loch Kelly 34:37

Yeah. So yeah, so yeah, it's it's to me, it's fun. You know, it's a lot of fun because there's no I'm not doing it. I'm like, I'm just like, look, I'm having fun. I'm gonna invite you in the pool. Come on in. It's the water's great, you know, like try this, try that, try this, try that. And um, and then if it's right, match, then it it it you know, it starts starts there on their own, and and that's I I'm very much of a um, you know, a democratic equal, you know, sharing with people. Um there was a tradition in in this North Indian Buddhist tradition called Mahamudra, where apparently at this certain time everyone was just teaching each other how to awaken. So the fishmonger was teaching the baker, and the baker was like, Hey, check this out. What are you doing today? Oh, well, you gotta check this. Oh, how's that going? Okay, well, let's all get together and help this person who's you know in grief. Okay, let's go, you know, let's, you know, and so and then times changed and it became more of a hierarchical thing where there's you know, uh monks and teachers and gurus, and you know, I mean the guru was also earlier too, but so this is kind of an opportunity to really um share um like, hey, we're all in this together, but this is like to me, awakening is the next natural stage of human development. So it combines with psychology, it isn't just a transcendent um, you know, getting out of suffering, but it's being in the world but not of it.

Ilona 36:27

Like uh childhood, adolescence, adult, oh wait, old old man.

Loch Kelly 36:34

Yeah, that's right.

Ilona 36:37

The stage in between adult and old.

Loch Kelly 36:44

Yeah, you start to you have the capability of of really living in this kind of flow consciousness, which people so often a lot of the glimpses are done with eyes open for for me, because I kind of ask people, well, wait a minute. So it when you drop out of your mind and you're in your body and you feel happy, feel connected, joyous, and not dominated by that small self, do you have any experiences of that in your life? And sometimes they'll say some peak experiences, but I'm saying then I say, no, no, like in your daily life, what do you do in your free time? What do you love to do? And what do you feel when you do that? And they say, Oh, well, I go walking in nature, oh, I go play with my dogs, oh, I go listen to music, oh, I play music, oh, I play a sport. I said, Okay, so what happens? Oh, well, I drop out of my mind, I walk into the woods, drop out of my mind, feel connected, eyes open, I'm in my body, then I'm walking with friends, then we're talking, then we go up the hike up this mountain, we look over the sky, and then I feel totally myself and free and happy, and then I go back the next Monday and think, oh, when can I go back on another hike? And I'm saying, no, no, you just discovered it wasn't the mountain, it wasn't your friend, it isn't the name, it isn't nature. That was the doorway for you to shift out of that small self and discover the you that's here right now. You don't have to go to a mountain or be with anybody. Can you learn to shift into that same you that was there on the hike with your friends looking out over the sky right now? What if that was already here? So that kind of and what if you could just then walk in woods and not only be aware of the woods, but kind of open to the being that's seeing.

Ilona 39:07

Yeah when you already had that recognition, that glimpse, or many glimpses. But I find that many people are stuck on having had a glimpse, and maybe it lasted a month or a year, yeah, or even longer, and then they come back to this ordinary small me sense, but all the troubles with all the conditioning, and and then their mission becomes to go back to that which is already gone, which is which was a glimpse, which was a gift, but it's it's gone. And it's so difficult sometimes to drop that idea that you can go back to something that already happened.

Loch Kelly 39:47

That's right.

Ilona 39:48

Because yeah, what is what is here is always here.

Loch Kelly 39:52

Yeah, yeah. So so you can't go back, and many people that what you're describing is I have many people come to me the same way. It's like I had this experience, and I and here's what I did. It's almost like that example I was giving about going up and walking in a mountain with your friends, except they've had it. I had it in meditation, I had it at a satsang, I had it, it just happened spontaneously, and then it maintained itself, and I felt this way. But then what happens is the, you know, slowly or quickly the old identity kind of co-ops it or starts to own it. It's like, oh, I'm awake, you know, I'm and I can, and then, or some you know, triggering event happens in their life, difficult event, they get flooded by their emotions, and then they go into survival mode a little bit, and then they they don't know how to get back. So, in many ways, that's why this small glimpses many times and kind of describing it as ordinary, and it's here now, it's already available. Don't go back, don't don't hope that it will work in the future, just see what's here now. But here's how you see try this now, and then the next stages of training, which is a lot of what I do is work with kind of people who have had initial awakening or who are unfolding, is okay, so now let's start to invite. So the two things that seem to be important are uh how do you function? How do you integrate um talking, walking, uh, thinking and operating, speaking, relating, creating from here, rather than just having a meditative experience, how does it function and survive and deal with diff, and then how do you deal with difficult emotions that have been repressed that come up? So there's a healing dimension for most people, even if they haven't had severe trauma, everyone's had to uh create from this small ego, they had to repress and control certain emotions and thoughts, and they had to shut themselves down. As soon as you open up, there's um an example of that is this uh colleague of mine, her name is Willoughby Britton, she's uh a scientist at Brown University, and what she did is uh uh a research study of people doing their first five-day uh insight meditation retreats. And what she found is that after three days, people would deconstruct their ego and they would recognize no self, but that 40% of them became flooded by their unconscious and had a bad experience. And so so, so this this is strong, you know, there's strong emotions, there's strong habits, habits, they don't they're gonna take some, you know, unfolding and and and processing uh from the new you. Um, but the thing that that system of that five-day introduction to insight meditation, it intro it has the insight into who you're not, but it doesn't introduce who you are. So that so when you you have to find out who you are, this a awake interbeing presence that has the capacity to be with and titrate so that it can even choose okay, I'm not gonna deal with this issue right now. I'm gonna go do this other thing, and then I'll come back later. Um, and then heal this these. Contracted issues that people have. As you say, you know, people come, you know, whether it's like I'm I lost it and I'm really upset. Well, that one who's really upset is the issue because it's not them, it's actually okay. Well, can you where in your body do you feel upset that you've lost your um awaken? Well, I feel it like here, and I feel it here. Okay, can you be aware of that inner in your body? Okay, can you ask that area, those parts to give you some space so you can be aware of them? So that move then opens. All right, now are you aware of this part of you that really is is upset that you've lost your awakening? Yeah, I'm aware of it. Well, where is it? Oh, it's right here. Okay, well, who's the one that is aware of it? Oh, well, it's kind of an awake awareness that's aware. Okay, well, how do you feel toward this part? Oh, well, I feel compassion. Okay, so now you're a compassionate, awake being that's aware of another part of you that's frustrated. Yes. Is it okay to have a part of you that's frustrated? Yeah, that part is very sweet. It has it has great intention and it wants to be happy. And how do you feel as the two of you are together? Well, I want to be caring toward it. I want to be, so you're you're recognizing the relative ups and downs of pleasant and unpleasant and emotional and personality from, but you're separating out. So that glimpse makes this move of disidentifying, but then coming back. So this is the key, not just leaving. I am not this frustrated part, I am pure awareness, the pure awareness, or I'm this spiritual ego trying to get back to where I am. It's like, okay, wait a minute, feel that that's that's happening, that's real. Now ask for some space, open. Now be aware of that as not the subject, but the object or the pattern. Huh, right. Most people can do that in minutes. So there are there are these processes once you know consciousness and how it works and how it patterns, that is just kind of learning how to navigate. But of course, the key is that awareness is what's navigating. So you're not unhooking from from your small self. Awareness is moving itself. So that's this that's the strange new thing that's not talked about in like insight meditation. And it's like, no, awareness is identified. Can awareness drop from your head down to your heart space? Well, what am I you mean? I have to do it? No, you don't have to do it. Well, but I don't know how awareness, I don't know awareness, let alone how it could do that. Okay, well, that's okay. Just see if it see if it'll do it. See if awareness. And that's the thing, is it has to be like, here's the pointer. Now try, see if, see if you try to drop below your neck, uh, or you use attention to look down. That's not it. Now, so here's so let's do another little glimpse here.

Ilona 47:54

Okay, wonderful. Yes. That's it.

Loch Kelly 47:56

Yeah, so this is this is um, so this is it teaches a little about that move, uh-huh. This unblending, unhooking. So uh with the first glimpse we did was like, what's here when there's no problem to solve? The problem solver stepped back and we kind of went to space, and then we realized space was within. Uh, we didn't have to clean up the cloud. You can step out into the sky, be the awareness, and then come back to the ocean and wave. This one we're gonna drop that awareness which is identified with thought, is gonna move itself down to feel your body from within and feel the awareness until it gets to some sense where people say, Oh, this is me. You know, kind of not it's so it's not your emotional heart, it's not your physical heart, it's not your heart chakra, it's not your Dantian or Hara or Kath, which is kind of in your belly brain, but it touches all these. It's kind of your heart space or your heart mind. It's it may be different places for different people. But so that that's the premise that that awareness can move itself, drop, feel your body from within, feel that you're aware of, and then you're aware from your body and your heart space, and then open up and then have all the information come down there. So let's try that. So, so just very simply, just notice how you are listening from your ears and maybe looking if you're watching, but feel that where is the constellation of the me that's getting ready to try to do something or different. I don't know if I can do this. Well, I'm gonna try. Where's all that happening? And then just notice that that's changing patterns of thoughts and personality, and then awareness is identified or attached or caught there, and just see whether awareness, you can ask for some space, or that awareness can simply unhook and begin like a bubble of awareness or a leaf, invisible leaf, or a visible elevator, can drop down to be aware of your jaw and your smile directly from within, and then feel as if that awareness can feel your throat and neck from within, feeling the space, the aliveness, effervescence, and awareness, and just check that you're not going up to thought to know, and you're not stretching attention down, but feel as if the knowing and the known are happening in the same location. So awareness is knowing your throat and your neck from within, and then feel as if that awareness can drop below your neck, feeling your upper body, maybe feeling your whole body, going behind and below your emotional heart until that awareness decenters and refines this safe heart space. So if it pops back up, just no big surprise, just re-recognize, just return until you feel as if you're aware of your heart space and you're aware of as your heart space, and then you it's almost as if you're looking out of the eyes of your heart. Information can come into your eyes or from the office of your head, can come down as if through Wi-Fi to your heart mind. So as you are aware of the front of your heart space, notice the middle of your heart space, in the middle of your body, all the way to the back, your spine, and then feel as if that bubble of awareness can open behind you, behind your back, until it finds the awake field of awareness that's already always been here. So the bubble mingles with that awareness behind you, so that you discover that awareness has your back. And as the awareness is like a field, it's also interconnected to the aliveness sound, almost like an ocean of awareness remains behind you, but it also comes forward and arises as your whole body from head to toes. And then the awareness looks out of the eyes of your heart, interbeing to connect to everybody, and you can feel that safety and that sense that no matter what arises can't hurt who you are. The awareness has your back, it's within you, it's interconnected, and you're dropped open and including everything. And just feel that sense of loving-kindness or compassion toward everyone and everything. Just resonate with that which is already here, that safety, openness, open-minded, open-hearted presence. May all beings be well and happy. May all beings awaken to their true nature. May all beings be free of suffering and discover who they truly are, feeling that receiving and giving and just stay at home almost like there's a little balloon in water that you're just kind of saying, stay, stay, as it tries to pop back up, just support this new little bit of awareness unfolding and awareness having confidence that it can support this new centerless center. So what do you feel and know what does the heart know to be true from here? Yeah.

Ilona 55:14

Beautiful.

Loch Kelly 55:16

Yeah, so that's kind of again, it's always trying to bring all the dimensions together and end up in safety and compassion. Because that's that's where we're going. We're not just going to freedom and initial waking up, but we're waking from, then we're waking to, then we're waking as, then we're waking within, then we're waking into being. So it which is all happening at once. So we're not like having to navigate, we're just kind of letting these almost like knots are untying. The first knot untie. Oh, then wait a minute. Oh, I'm in, I'm caught in this pure awareness. Oh, let me untie that. Woo! Then you come back here, and then oh, it seems still feels kind of neutral. Well, let me untie that. Oh, it's safe, and everyone is the same. We're all the we're all the same. We're like namaste, right? That I see that in you that's in me. Oh, yeah, we're, oh, that's right. Well, that's great. You know, and then it's kind of a joyous, fun freedom of safety, and and then you kind of start to become creative from there. And you'd be like, what do I want to do? What what's what's important? What's what's of value? What's the meaning of of things from here starts to show itself to you? You don't have to kind of figure it out.

Ilona 56:58

Thank you so much. I'm so with you.

Loch Kelly 57:03

I'm so glad.

Ilona 57:06

Yeah. This hour went so quickly.

Loch Kelly 57:15

Yeah, yeah, this was great. So so happy. And uh if you want to yeah, talk more at some other time, we can go into other subjects. But this was beautiful. This is really, I think, um, you know, I'm from New York, so I talk a little fast, but I'm trying to get it all, get it all in here, but it all flows out. That's the thing, is like I don't even think about what I'm gonna say because I trust that language is learned and I like surrender, and then like, what is awakening? I and then my mind goes, I have no idea. What am I gonna say? Oh, forget it. Don't don't even just let yourself, and then my speech pattern comes out as you saw. Like, okay, well, there's this, and then there's this, and then there's this. So, as you say, people can listen to it again or go and try some some more and different glimpses, particularly on on my app or in some of the online courses, which which I try to describe different doorways for different learning styles and for different people who have different obstacles.

Ilona 58:27

This this is what I was gonna ask you. How people find you? What is your website? What is the app?

Loch Kelly 58:35

Yes. Yeah, so the website has you know all the links to all different resources. Uh it's just uh lockkelly.org, l-o c l y dot org. And the app is mindful glimpses. Um it can be you know found in the in the app store or on the website. And then there's other these other courses and trainings that I do because my interest is in those who have kind of had the initial glimpses or initial tastes. Let's see how we can live from here. Because that's that's a lot of people can introduce this, but I'm like, okay, I'm gonna specialize in living awake in the world and how to really navigate and be honest about what gets in the way and gets caught. So I have these courses about um one's called effortless focus and flow, one's called uh effortless mindfulness and internal family systems, which is brings in psychology, and the other is kind of an introduction to um level different levels of effortless mindfulness, just to learn how it starts, what the next levels are that where people tend to get caught, or how to overcome those, different doorways that match, and try to create these kind of higher quality evergreen products because everyone can't meet, you know, for retreats or fly or you know, or even the time zones are different. So it's like, okay, let me create these really short videos that go one by one and that you can listen to anytime.

Ilona 1:00:27

Oh wonderful, thank you so much. Yeah, and whoever is listening, take notes. I think you you are one of most um clear, precise, uh powerful guides that have been on this channel. Thank you.

Loch Kelly 1:00:51

Thank you. Thank you so much for offering people uh a way to dialogue and to hear different voices. Yeah.

Ilona 1:00:59

All right, well I may speak to you again. Thank you so much.

Loch Kelly 1:01:02

Okay, thank you so much.